#101 Martial Master Asumi (Ft. Brody from the Fandoms Podcast)

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[00:00:19] for a Shonen Flop. Welcome to this episode of Shonen Flop, where we talk about manga and Shonen Jump

[00:00:23] that didn't make it big. I'm David. I'm Jordan. Next week we'll be covering Takama guys if

[00:00:28] you'd like to read along with us. Takama Gaara just so you're not confused listener.

[00:00:34] Yeah, you can talk with us on the discord final link in our app description or our website

[00:00:38] shonenflop.com. But this week we are talking about Marshall Master Usumi, oh man already not

[00:00:44] fucking up the title. And we are joined by our guest Brody. Brody thank you so much for joining

[00:00:48] us today. Thanks for having me guys. Oh yeah. Brody it was a total blast to be on your show.

[00:00:53] Do you mind telling the audience a little bit about yourself? Oh thanks Yauf. Yeah you were back

[00:00:56] on probably my cringe days but I pretty much just interviewed people about whatever they're a fan of

[00:01:02] from socks to TikTok, whatever it is. If you're a fan of it I want to talk to you about it. I've had

[00:01:08] David on for Shonen and Jordan came to talk Heavy Metal which will be the next one released

[00:01:14] probably next week. Hell yeah. So yeah other than that that's pretty much what I do. I got

[00:01:19] a few other podcasts coming down the pipeline as well but yeah that's just it. Hell yeah.

[00:01:23] That's awesome. All right well you know what else is awesome hearing about this mug is it Jordan?

[00:01:27] Shall we dive in? Yes let's do it. Tell us about it. So this is Marshall Master Usumi by the way I

[00:01:34] realized uh after I finished it oh Marshall Master Usumi MMA okay. I'm just realizing that now.

[00:01:41] I thought it was obvious but now I'm just telling an asshole if I saying that.

[00:01:45] This was written by Kawada one name you know David. We actually did some digimaxabine

[00:01:50] this is actually Zendaya's pen name. We made that joke on the chibi thank you.

[00:01:54] Fine you're right we did some research and it actually shares pen names. It's Oprah of course.

[00:01:59] Notable people they were an assistant for was Ryo Hoshino on Nisawi Tilda All Capitals

[00:02:07] Those Days Tilda and Tadatoshi Fujimaki of Robot Laser Beam David I have to do this

[00:02:13] do not stop me Brody what is Robot Laser Beam about? Oh it's an autistic golfer man.

[00:02:19] Whoa oh right you listened to the show. I do big time fan. Oh man I can't believe okay okay fine

[00:02:28] also Koroko's basketball that's what he's famous for other works include Hii Damaru Sumo 2014-2019

[00:02:36] 28 volumes Shonen Jump sounds much more successful than this the most popular very small handful

[00:02:42] the sumo manga and weekly Shonen Jump's history despite the fact that it is extremely popular

[00:02:47] in Japan as well as being its national sport not a huge seller but enjoyed a significant amount of

[00:02:53] color pages like once every 10 chapters roughly that's pretty rare it got three light novels and

[00:02:59] an anime adaptation so that we have a rule on Shonen Flop if it got an anime adaptation

[00:03:05] it is not a flop no matter the quality no matter how long it ran if it got an anime it is a

[00:03:11] success unless it was level e or bow that was only because our offer later became a hit yeah I mean

[00:03:18] when did bow get the uh definitely wasn't it when it was contemporary yeah it was definitely after

[00:03:24] JoJo um but we're not talking about that we're talking about Martial Master Assume and this ran

[00:03:29] from june 19 2023 to february 12 2024 rest in peace apparently it didn't really replace

[00:03:38] anything because it's spotted and occupied by a bunch of one shots beforehand it's kind of unclear

[00:03:44] what series would have counted uh yeah series that replaced it though is Dear Anemone by Rin

[00:03:51] Matsui which is still going and the series started at the same time as it David is Icehead

[00:03:56] Gil oh that's episode 92 you want to listen to that listen to the episode don't read the manga

[00:04:02] I mean the manga is like okay shit manga great episode cover art it's bad but it's not it

[00:04:07] won't kill you um yeah Martial Master Assume ran for 32 chapters for volumes let's get into the plot

[00:04:14] of that fucking manga let's do it Nito Assume is a high schooler whose grandpa has dementia the only

[00:04:21] time he's lucid is when he's teaching Niko sick kung fu moves while confusing him for his older

[00:04:27] brother kazuro at school Nito is bullied relentlessly and his friend yuya says he wants to

[00:04:32] do MMA so he can fight them off Nito meets now who he immediately develops a crush on because she

[00:04:38] wears glasses and David that's his fetish there was a lot of thinly hidden thinly veiled fetishes

[00:04:43] in this manga oh yeah look judging by baki which is the best fighting manga if you don't got fetishes

[00:04:50] and you're fucking fighting then what the fuck are you doing this manga is significantly less

[00:04:56] fetish even baki I will say her father also runs the MMA gym where yuya is planning to go

[00:05:03] Nito is dragged there before deciding it's not for him uh he just wants to take care of his grandpa

[00:05:08] instead but as he leaves he's ambushed by his bullies Nito then goes fucking crazy mode and

[00:05:15] wrecks their goddamn asses popcorn David now sees this happen in demands you join her MMA gym

[00:05:21] soon we find out that Nito's older brother kazuro is Kaz low a famous MMA fighter who is also

[00:05:27] a douchebag Nito hates his brother for abandoning their family and also probably because kaza does

[00:05:32] some pretty shitty things or I think unironically he pays homeless people to let the him beat them

[00:05:36] up you think I wouldn't be surprised if he did that yes you know uh so kazuro beats the

[00:05:41] shit out of Nito in an impromptu MMA match and tells him to go pro so they can fight

[00:05:45] each other again the fight was filmed and put on youtube where it goes viral now

[00:05:49] then wins a tournament allowing her to join a professional promotion nito follows up by joining

[00:05:53] an underground tournament if nito wins three matches then he can go pro and he easily wins the first

[00:05:57] two the final match is against taiga an orphan turned fighter from a really shitty and poor

[00:06:02] chimp who pulled himself up from his bootstraps yeah nito defeats him by blacking out and going

[00:06:07] crazy mode on his ass or sicko mode as one might say this makes nito officially a pro fighter

[00:06:12] popcorn brody turns out that now wants to go pro so she can fight a kome a prodigy who

[00:06:18] previously insulted her club and beat the shit out of her in a fight now first has to fight a rich

[00:06:23] girl who used to be a fencer she wins and tells okome she's coming after her who flips her all

[00:06:28] i had to read it twice to realize that what was happening was uh okome absolutely flipped her off

[00:06:33] but like they couldn't show that and shown in jumps so they just kind of cut off the panel

[00:06:37] right there i thought that was kind of cute well just can't show that in a christian manga yep

[00:06:42] next nito meets a guy at his grandpa's adult daycare who's an MMA fighter getting ready for

[00:06:47] what may be his last fight which is actually actually against nito gas then kazuro tells him

[00:06:54] to win a tournament so they can fight flash forward a year and nito has won the tournament the manga

[00:06:59] ends as he steps into the ring with his older brother giving us all the biggest blue balls yeah

[00:07:05] who would have been surprised it ends like rocky two it totally doesn't which ends with

[00:07:12] basically a mural of rocky or i think it's rocky three that ends with a mural of rocky and

[00:07:19] apollo greed punching each other at the exact same time see i could picture exactly what you're talking

[00:07:24] about but i couldn't tell you which one it was from i think it's three i think you might be right

[00:07:28] and he's actually been here the whole time whoa it's like 1925 and it yo all right and so

[00:07:36] brody would you mind telling us about the main character our main character is nito awesome

[00:07:41] which weirdly enough you guys picked uh main character i really related to i did karate as a

[00:07:47] kid and i quit the day i made a kid cry so at first him being good at fighting but not liking

[00:07:53] to do it was relatable wasn't till i learned like high school wrestling or actually got into like

[00:07:58] any kind of physical sports but just like now our nito i was kind of a scary babby uh didn't

[00:08:05] like to fight but when i got mad uh i was a little bit scary until i learned to get those uh

[00:08:11] anger issues under control so you also blacked out and went synco mode pretty much uh broky

[00:08:17] kid's leg in seventh grade by accident actually whole fema damn yeah that was intense with the

[00:08:23] grandpa where he was like you tried to kill me i let you live put in breaking one of your legs

[00:08:27] as punishment for that yep god is yeah we'll talk about grandpa about that fucking crazy but

[00:08:32] yeah he also he does a stereotypical thing and shown over gets a special move in the offer can't

[00:08:36] really think of other special moves so he just spams it constantly yep that fly in me he is the

[00:08:41] water hammer oh you're right i forgot he uses this flying knee a lot in those early fights once

[00:08:46] he unlocked it yeah if i remember correctly in real mma it's not a very effective move

[00:08:51] but it looks cool it does look cool well he was fighting against people who were really shitty at

[00:08:55] mma for his first true his first couple matches who didn't understand what the fuck was going

[00:09:00] on and uh like we brushed on earlier he's got a bit of a glasses fetish which i think might stem

[00:09:07] from some daddy issues yeah because his dad had glasses i love how his dad is just like like his

[00:09:13] grandpa's a super serious fighter and his dad's just like yeah i do this for exercise yeah he used

[00:09:19] to be short yeah is there more to say or show me move on to the glasses lady he says he wants

[00:09:24] to be a nurse but it's really just because he wants to take care of his grandpa very nice it's nice

[00:09:29] but it's also like kind of self-sacrifice yes that was an element i thought was interesting but i don't

[00:09:35] think they really brought it back up after the first two chapters but yeah jordan though do you

[00:09:39] or actually uh i'll talk about now so the next character though i want to talk about is now kiba

[00:09:43] she is the legally required female protagonist in all sports manga though i will say the series

[00:09:48] definitely gives her more time than i think he was court mandated to do so which was nice

[00:09:52] she was pretty cool honestly like she had she was like legitimately very strong they gave her like

[00:09:59] opportunities to like really fight she has like a multi chapter fight yeah it's like on iraq who won

[00:10:05] the longest fights in the series i think yeah um she's definitely like a goblin mode but i i i think

[00:10:11] we talked about this to you but i really don't like her design i think those like her teeth

[00:10:14] yes just seems so cartoonish that just feels like she doesn't she just stands out and there's

[00:10:18] somewhere i'm like i really wish you had redrawn this person's face so her teeth made me think he

[00:10:23] didn't know they wore mouth guards in mma until the scene where someone's mouth guard falls out onto

[00:10:29] the mat and it's there between their legs and i'm like but every time she smiles on the ring you

[00:10:33] see your sharp teeth i didn't even notice the mouth guard i did not that i didn't that didn't

[00:10:38] even occur to me but you're right like in her fight her opponent is drawn with a mouth guard

[00:10:43] she isn't it's just so weird i don't understand why the offer gave her super weird teeth like this

[00:10:49] well it's cute fangs yeah but no she has shark teeth all her teeth are like that she does have shark

[00:10:54] teeth yep so it's not even like a comedic face she just her normal state is having shark teeth

[00:10:59] which is really weird i think in some ways it kind of fits her character because like during

[00:11:03] the fight she's like i will devour you i will devour you i will use you to make myself stronger

[00:11:09] i will i will eat you i think you're right david there are some fetishes in here yeah i told you

[00:11:15] it's not subtle man and then jord do you want to tell us about grandpa oh man so grandpa is a this

[00:11:21] former like martial arts master he seems like he was like an assassin he definitely killed people

[00:11:28] grandpa has bodies well he actually explicitly says that like if i was younger i would have just

[00:11:33] killed you yep he explicitly did not do this for sport so he has his own special uh fighting style

[00:11:42] that was like cobbled together with like a bunch of things like uh you know jiu-jitsu brazilian

[00:11:48] jiu-jitsu or whatever the hell that is bj yeah bjj yeah and like some other stuff and he talks

[00:11:54] about how well in my in my martial arts you're actually always just supposed to kill people

[00:11:59] actually just go for the eyes and the crotch all the fucking time like imagine if this had taken

[00:12:04] off and they made like a prequel manga about him that'd be cool actually god let's just that's

[00:12:09] what they should have made instead it's actually odd that's just sakamoto days but yeah he's badass

[00:12:14] i feel like it's bucky what if he is bucky oh my god he's lost some mass but this is what happened

[00:12:21] to bucky hanma yeah we already know what jorge recommendation is gonna be of course it is

[00:12:27] but i dare you not to recommend bucky you're gonna have to think about it i have another one

[00:12:32] going because i figured bucky would be too obvious actually but just no listener side recommendation

[00:12:39] anyway bucky but yeah and then he has dementia which is just a i feel like if he's just saying

[00:12:44] it's a forgotten plot point oh god david but it totally is kind of comes back into play

[00:12:52] it kind of comes back i thought it was really funny how they go to how like uh nido goes to

[00:12:58] like his grandfather's adult daycare and like all the old women are like in yes yeah i was so

[00:13:07] thrown off by old people daycare like is that an actual thing because like here we have old folks

[00:13:11] homes but like i've never heard of an old folks daycare and i was a personal support worker i

[00:13:15] worked with old people i mean keep in mind this is japan so they might have that in japan

[00:13:20] another like another thing is like a character similar to that a character is in an orphanage

[00:13:24] and i was like do they have orphanages in japan because for those who don't know in america the

[00:13:29] or orphanages are kind of not a thing anymore we have the foster system yeah no that makes sense

[00:13:34] yeah i think like in most of the western world that is the case but like no they do have

[00:13:39] orphanages in japan and it would make sense that they had adult daycares adult daycares

[00:13:44] seem like not a bad idea actually but what does such an aging population yeah but it's also

[00:13:49] it's also just like you can stay with your family but also go to this place where you can get looked

[00:13:55] after for like a significant part of the day i will say by the way we have one last character so shall

[00:14:00] we dive into let's do it this fucking asshole there's kazaro the oldest brother he's hotheaded

[00:14:06] he definitely has that that the weak should fear the strong mentality which fuck what is that from

[00:14:11] is that from i think it's from undertale um like a fan comic about undertale yeah i still

[00:14:17] stand by i genuinely think he just he pays homeless people to like right like he's not paying

[00:14:21] bums to fight he's paying bums to fight him yeah yeah to be to be clear listener this is not in the

[00:14:27] manga this is david's headcanon he is like i'll give you money if you can beat me up to a fight

[00:14:32] to like the semi homeless guy does he yeah that's how he gets his protege was literally like a guy

[00:14:37] off the street he beat i don't think that guy was homeless oh i thought they were gang

[00:14:41] members yeah i thought they were supposed to be like wannabe gangsters dick i was like he

[00:14:45] has no money i don't know i don't know but he gets into a street fight with a guy and gets his

[00:14:50] ass kicked and the guys like hey man you should do mma yeah not just the guy gives him like a card

[00:14:56] to a g like uh that would get him into a gym i don't think that guy was homeless david there

[00:15:02] was the actually homeless guy who lived at the gym but i know that was a different dude that dude

[00:15:06] was like different yeah he was just like a delinquent who it's sort of implied might have been gay

[00:15:12] i'm not sure anyway let's get into why i failed speaking of my failed attempt to

[00:15:18] like create headcanon for this series i think this is a rarity i start why i failed but i want to

[00:15:22] say this art style there were definitely times it worked but overall i feel at a base level it

[00:15:25] just didn't feel bright for what the series was kind trying to do i feel like a lot of do retries

[00:15:31] lingering in my brain which was definitely worse than this it's just it's like this didn't

[00:15:35] feel like the right art style for the seriousness of these fights i kind of disagree me do but

[00:15:40] like yeah i think it's very cruel to compare this to do retry this is so much better is this is way

[00:15:47] better than do retry so much better oh my god now what are my issues with this is that like a lot

[00:15:53] of the time rather than having like a lot of like plots and stuff they try and like push things

[00:15:59] forward with like montages almost yeah and they have a lot of time skips yeah they do yeah

[00:16:05] which like i understand like on a construction level kind of but like yeah i didn't feel it too

[00:16:11] jarring because with combat sports there is a lot of downtime and stuff you only have a couple fights

[00:16:17] in a year usually so that month skip is kind of like a week of that guaranteed is recovery time

[00:16:23] three weeks is probably just him training but i did feel like we could have gotten a bit more

[00:16:28] of his personal life in between those parts maybe yeah they could have very easily inserted

[00:16:33] this character writing which i really was excited about in the first chapter that fell apart i would

[00:16:37] have liked to see more build up like famously like in a lot of boxing matches like um i know

[00:16:44] Muhammad Ali would do this where it's like he would basically harass the other boxer for like a

[00:16:50] month before they fought because it was all about getting into the head into the head of his enemy

[00:16:55] basically yeah i would have liked to see something like that because like in a fight like a lot of

[00:17:00] the tactics outside of the ring effect in the ring performance too he used to say the fight doesn't

[00:17:06] start when the bell rings it starts the minute your opponents announced yeah i still love the

[00:17:11] guy who gives flowers to his opponents before each fight i don't know how that is there's a mma

[00:17:16] fighter who does that that's awesome i think he's lost every fight where the person took the

[00:17:20] flowers if you because david if you refuse the flowers then it unlocks his angry side

[00:17:28] that's true yeah and then uh to get back speaking of mma fighting i think just the older brother

[00:17:33] being the villain like why did it take so long to establish any sort of actual plot and it's so

[00:17:38] cliche to have i i mean evil i guess is the wrong word but like to have like an antagonistic

[00:17:43] older like this is fucking the plot of Naruto is Naruto's older brother no saucegates oh yeah

[00:17:50] yeah it's literally saucegates saying you're not strong enough to defeat me get stronger

[00:17:54] i mean by virtue of this being about sports and like being more grounded uh kazura is not

[00:18:00] really evil he's just kind of a dick well that i mean given the sense of the series no one is

[00:18:05] actually evil but like he seemed to be like really happy when nito won like really happy so

[00:18:11] i don't know i found those moments kind of sweet but also uh one of the things that's

[00:18:15] mentioned and brought up which on one level is interesting is that like everybody that

[00:18:20] nito fights has a better reason to fight than he does it's a source where nito feels bad about it

[00:18:26] which you know is legitimately interesting because it gets into like well these people want to fight

[00:18:31] um and they want like a good fight you know it would be like disrespectful to go easy on them

[00:18:36] but also the end result is that as i said everybody has a better reason to fight than nito

[00:18:43] yeah like a better story yeah also can we talk about nito having like a super mode is so

[00:18:51] fucking stupid like just let the man fight like you don't need this like uh unlocking killing and

[00:18:57] tent melgore rising shit i actually kind of liked that it really so again throw back to my

[00:19:03] personal life um but yeah i i kind of related to that because when i played football growing up i

[00:19:09] i could not tell you 90 of the rules to football but i was apparently amazing at it but once i heard

[00:19:14] hot i'd black out really yeah i'd wake up on top of the guy with the ball and i was holy shit what the

[00:19:20] fuck and everybody thought i was an amazing football player but i don't know 90 of the

[00:19:24] fucking rules to football god damn that's hilarious holy shit bro you okay man also i

[00:19:31] do have to talk about the dialogue which uh this manga contains a line that is the funniest

[00:19:37] possible line you could put into an MMA manga which is a character says he's truly mixing his

[00:19:44] martial arts thank you sweet leg it was like oh god yeah like is that a negative i i know i i don't

[00:19:56] know if it's i'm just saying that's the section we're in brother man i think it is a negative

[00:20:01] because that's not good writing like no i mean the writing like it barely explains a lot of the

[00:20:07] MMA concepts i learned very little about this more functions i don't know i mean we'll get into it you

[00:20:12] want to get into the uh no we have more to talk about in the negatives why because i like this oh

[00:20:18] fuck off brody though is there any last thing you think is like an issue uh that you had with

[00:20:24] the series um the whole beat me at the top mentality like in actuality it's like if you

[00:20:30] want to fight your brother why aren't you just fighting your brother like i get it well he did

[00:20:34] fight him and then he beat his ass yeah and i don't understand why he wanted a second match

[00:20:38] like he proved himself it is kind of silly how it's like i'm gonna beat you so you call my grandpa

[00:20:45] and then it turns out oh he was gonna do that anyway so it is kind of like what was the point

[00:20:49] well it's all just the point here what are we doing here and then i i mean the series never

[00:20:53] really gives us a purpose it's like eight chapters in before there's actually a reason why he's doing

[00:20:57] mma besides just trying that because a girl told him to i feel like they were kind of flip floppy on

[00:21:02] whether causarot was supposed to be this complete total asshole or whether we were supposed to feel

[00:21:08] something for him i i don't know i think that's a good way to put it it's like flip floppy because

[00:21:13] like on one hand causarot is sometimes like depicted as like this douchebag and that's

[00:21:18] kind of implied he's pretending to be a douchebag to make nido better and then

[00:21:23] it's like nah he's actually a douchebag so just the plot of naruto all over again with atachi

[00:21:29] it's also kind of the plot of baki except no yujiro is actually a horrible horrible human being but

[00:21:36] like he also kind of wants baki to get better read baki baki's great god baki all right um and

[00:21:43] then speaking of things that are great we can get into what it did well so brody as someone who's

[00:21:47] also great can you tell us what are some things you liked about the series the art is pretty

[00:21:50] solid there were actually backgrounds in it which was really nice to see i've read a lot of manga

[00:21:55] where it's just plain white yeah i actually did like the art like i could pretty much always tell

[00:22:01] what was happening which is very difficult in a manga like this where characters are like wrapped

[00:22:07] up in each other like this is not easy to do the anatomy was like usually pretty on point i

[00:22:13] feel like i could really follow these matches and they were talking about like strategy in there

[00:22:18] that kind of for the most part made sense i disagree with david on the art i think it really

[00:22:23] worked agree to disagree i mean you know maybe it was sometimes hard to tell kazuro apart from uh

[00:22:30] nito i will give you i'll give it that yeah but like uh the actual fighting i felt worked

[00:22:36] really well i actually really enjoyed that yeah i find personally i have a lot of trouble with

[00:22:42] certain a lot of mangas with the action and the movement and following along with what's

[00:22:46] actually going on unless i sit there and stare at it but like the first time going through like

[00:22:50] when i was more reading like i didn't have to sit there and focus on the art to know what was

[00:22:54] going on once i did stop and linger on it i loved what i was looking at but you could tell

[00:22:59] exactly what the author was trying to get across i also like just as i think we talked about the

[00:23:04] series actually had a lot of respect for the female fighters yes oh yeah at the start kind

[00:23:09] of skipped over but then they really like the women of authors fetish aside the women

[00:23:13] were not objectified that much like they were wearing realistic emma make clothing i really do

[00:23:18] think that fight against the fencing lady really was a highlight of the series where it really

[00:23:21] felt like in a fight but it had some interesting elements that still made me feel like i was reading

[00:23:25] a manga instead of just a drawn version of the fight can i just also point out like um

[00:23:29] this manga had women with different body types yeah like that itself is shocking in manga you

[00:23:36] know you have the joke about how oda has two body types hot and ugly and like i agree with

[00:23:41] david i don't feel like the women in this are overly sexualized like at all what mma fighting

[00:23:47] women probably look like yes pretty much yeah i mean they're they're usually jacked for one thing

[00:23:53] which makes total sense the author definitely loves women with six packs though i mean who doesn't

[00:23:59] yeah i was pretty surprised to actually see muscly women david not every not every instance of

[00:24:06] powerful women is a fetish okay but also like uh kind of an example of that there is a uh the one

[00:24:15] kind of like princess fencing character who has this butler who was into mma and she's like one man

[00:24:23] truly inspired me to go into fighting and it's like it's build up it's like yeah she's gonna

[00:24:27] say the butler and she's like this one man bruce lee that killed me i loved that it was

[00:24:34] like oh it was so good it's like yeah fuck yeah you know what hell yeah yeah i mean i think the

[00:24:43] character is really interesting and i also love how it's not a free to use dementia as a natural

[00:24:48] plot device and how it actually is kind of woven into the fabric of this fear of you just doing

[00:24:53] the same things over and over and wasting your life much like how dementia is just kind of

[00:24:57] living your days but not even remembering what you're experiencing and that's just that was a

[00:25:01] very creative plot choice that is like you know what yes we did just read an arm on go about that but

[00:25:06] besides that i can't think of our shonen series that really uses dimension in such an interesting

[00:25:10] way yeah that's a good point yeah where it's like uh he gets lucid when he does something uh that

[00:25:17] really is meaningful to him which is i think kind of realistic it is there are a lot of

[00:25:22] instances where if you play music that somebody with dementia likes it makes them kind of

[00:25:29] come back to reality for a little bit so i've actually worked in old folks homes and stuff and

[00:25:34] it's true we do a lot of things where like you find out things about like what patients like to do in

[00:25:39] their younger years and you'll see people with dementia and stuff completely like if there's music

[00:25:44] on that was around when they were younger they can snap right back to lucidity and it's crazy

[00:25:49] that's amazing one other thing i liked about this was how it was like realistic about the money

[00:25:54] in MMA yeah nobody here was fighting to get rich like one of the few people that nido fights in this

[00:26:03] you know because it was so short worked at the old folks home or i guess the adult daycare where

[00:26:09] his grandpa went and he was talking about how like yeah honestly this pays better than uh

[00:26:16] MMA but i just really like doing MMA yeah brothers like very few pros are actually pros um my

[00:26:22] college professor was an MMA fighter on the side that's so cool he told me would have he would have

[00:26:26] just done MMA if it could have paid the bills but he was also a paramedic and all this other crazy

[00:26:31] shit whoa that sounds cool yeah imagine if he had stayed in MMA so you figure where the series

[00:26:37] could have gone so shall we move into that huh so jordan what are some things that you would

[00:26:41] have tweaked about this series i mean as i mentioned earlier just like go into um more of

[00:26:47] a psychological thing like where it really it really like built up the next fight i would really

[00:26:53] like to see that uh i felt like it was gonna go there but like you know you can't tell you don't

[00:26:58] know for sure because you don't know how the author would have done the next few uh fights but i also

[00:27:03] i mean it seemed pretty clear that it was about to go on a year long tournament arc i mean it

[00:27:09] basically said that yeah so i guess what the place it was gonna go was just uh show you the

[00:27:14] things that time skipped over god jordan really love this series i kind of liked it i i did too i

[00:27:20] wanted more i feel like they had plans for the best friend to that kind of guy the best one just

[00:27:24] disappears well like they bring in that subplot with him having a girlfriend and then it just

[00:27:30] she gets dumped she's like i prefer basketball he like goes into this whole tangent about how

[00:27:35] excited he is for MMA and she's like wait you're not on the basketball team anymore bye

[00:27:40] oh yeah and then like that just went nowhere though like it they didn't do anything with it

[00:27:46] really other than wow he got dumped and he's being so supportive of me what a great friend

[00:27:51] the series really had trouble keeping the characters relevant which is what i really

[00:27:54] wish it had built on because just such a character driven sports manga is a great way

[00:27:58] of making you care about the sports part by really caring about the characters like for

[00:28:01] instance ishield 21 is surprisingly very character driven when you're not actually looking at the

[00:28:07] aspect so it really manages to get both and one thing is i feel like it would have been cool to

[00:28:11] have seen because they had it with the fencer woman and how she used to be a fencer and she

[00:28:14] brought fencing techniques into his fight what if we saw more of that where the characters

[00:28:18] are living their life doing things that maybe are not explicitly MMA based but you see how

[00:28:22] that brings it into the ring because MMA really is you take anything you know with you

[00:28:26] because it's just it's mixed martial arts you can bring any techniques there could be

[00:28:29] you're mixing your martial arts whoa i read that line in the manga crazy but yeah i just think

[00:28:35] it would have been so cool to giving you a really great reason to have the characters do

[00:28:39] things that aren't just pure MMA fighting because you can bring it into the next fight you know

[00:28:43] it's complicated because like on one hand i think that would have been interesting but

[00:28:47] it's also like this manga does try and have it multiple ways because it's trying to be

[00:28:52] realistic but also like has a couple characters that are like kind of silly so it's like

[00:28:58] like the shark teeth the shark teeth but also like the delinquent guy who's fought like

[00:29:03] a ton of people and wants to have conversations with his fists my man me to get a nito guy

[00:29:09] the guy who's like my man nito oh that other guy they're just like multiple delinquent guys

[00:29:15] because i loved the my man nito guy no i like that guy too yeah there's a there's a lot of character

[00:29:21] concepts stories and there's also the fact that his siblings have zero relevance to the series

[00:29:25] except for his older brother right yeah so it would have been fun if they were relevant

[00:29:30] he's got like five siblings yep there's just sister who takes care of grandpa when he's busy

[00:29:36] yeah overworked mom his brother and sister who are always on social media yes i forgot about them

[00:29:43] completely yeah yeah see that's the problem it's like it's just like there was this family story

[00:29:48] i really wanted to see more of yeah yeah because they wanted more dementia

[00:29:54] still didn't take that out of context if only there was a podcast about that

[00:29:58] almost forgotten grandpa had dementia until he forgot the book oh god but yeah does anyone have

[00:30:02] any other places where they feel the series could have gone um i thought that more was going to be

[00:30:07] done with grandpa's health like yeah they kind of alluded we don't have much time because grandpa

[00:30:12] might die i feel like grandpa was gonna die like right before their fight right before nito and

[00:30:18] casalos fight i feel like that made the most sense yeah i mean yeah his health seems to be fine

[00:30:24] for out most of the series relatively speaking of course i mean he's an old man who can do crazy

[00:30:29] kung fu moves so yeah his health seems to be all right honestly oh god all right so shall we go into

[00:30:36] miscellaneous thoughts i didn't really have a lot of thoughts uh i do wonder if tag mma is a thing

[00:30:41] because i just feel that would be really silly and fun uh yeah that was about it i really don't

[00:30:45] think it is i used to watch a lot of ufc but no as soon as i seen that in the notes i was like

[00:30:51] damn why is that not a thing right i think it would be like too dangerous sort of like the thing

[00:30:57] about mma is obviously it's not wrestling you can do i mean pro wrestling because uh obviously there's

[00:31:03] wrestling in mma blah blah blah but you can do goofy things like that in pro wrestling because

[00:31:08] it's scripted but in mma like some mma fights last literally three seconds yeah because it turns

[00:31:14] out if you actually get punched in the right place at the right time you're just out it

[00:31:20] doesn't matter who you are didn't ronda rousey get like knocked down the first like 15 seconds of a

[00:31:25] fight once oh yeah it's just like if you get hit in the jaw in the right place you're done sorry

[00:31:30] you're out like they showed him in this manga just kneading a guy in the face and he was done

[00:31:35] and that happens it's like oof that's rough yeah so it's like adding in goofy or special conditions

[00:31:42] to a fight i feel like isn't really something you can do when the fight itself is already this

[00:31:47] dangerous it's like we're gonna add in additional complications i feel like that it could be a three

[00:31:53] on three and then if one guy gets in really knockout it just turns into a team match oh god oh yeah

[00:31:59] that's a three oh my god that you want to talk about danger now we have two guys beating up one guy

[00:32:06] no i'm talking about you do three one-on-one fights and then it's based on whichever team wins the

[00:32:10] two out of once the most matches is there still three guys in a ring what's happening

[00:32:16] no it's just three individual fights but it's team so whichever team wins the most fights okay

[00:32:22] yeah doesn't sound fun that sounds fun right i guess i want to see a show in a manga about tag

[00:32:26] team fighting though it's just such a stupid it's such a fun idea uh it's called kenikuman

[00:32:31] david besides that a non wrestling manga about tag team uh that was really all i had though uh do

[00:32:37] you guys have any other miscellaneous thoughts i will never forget the he's truly mixing his

[00:32:42] martial arts fuck off jordan i'm gonna be thinking about that forever because what an amazing line

[00:32:48] i almost fried a work computer when that line came up i was at my job just downtime reading some manga

[00:32:55] took a drink of coffee and the mixing the martial arts line i almost destroyed a work keyboard and

[00:33:01] it would have been hard to explain why i was reading manga at work and then uh let me read

[00:33:07] some of maxi b's wonderful thoughts big thank you to maxi b koata is obviously a pen name

[00:33:11] and savvy pro wrestling fans would have are i guess this is a tribute to tohshikawa koata the best

[00:33:16] match machine one of the four pillars of heaven quite possibly the greatest professional wrestler

[00:33:20] of all time for those wondering it is in fact tohshiyaki koata oh sorry yeah so the fake mma

[00:33:26] organization shown in chapter nine has real world equivalents here's two identified shigeki's real

[00:33:31] world equivalent is shoto founded by tiger mask well the first one in 1985 and cross impacts

[00:33:37] real world equivalent is pan cross a kind of our wrestling legends minoru sezuki and masakatsu

[00:33:42] funaki in 1993 should watch some old uh pancreas it's really good pancreas some old yeah pancreas

[00:33:49] pan cross there i don't even know how to say i think it comes from pancreation which is like sure

[00:33:54] i want you to eat my pan cross a it's the greek fighting style of being naked while fighting

[00:34:00] yes you know a glass is fetish doesn't have a traditional latin name but maxi b says people

[00:34:04] have too much time on their one free hand have called themselves spectapiles yes the kid tiger mask

[00:34:10] is a reference to tiger mask the wrestling persona in the manga that inspired it a knockout with

[00:34:14] flying knee and under 10 seconds will be familiar to any fans of the chorea masavall who knocked

[00:34:19] out ben askren went five seconds with one so that's your quick knockout drawing you know something

[00:34:23] it's funny um they mentioned at one point when taiga wears a tiger mask the um referee is like

[00:34:31] i just feel like orphanages and tiger masks kind of go together and i assume this is like from the

[00:34:37] manga slash real life person or whatever where that comes from but also that happened in uh

[00:34:44] tech in with king who i feel like is also probably a reference to tiger mask i love thinking about

[00:34:49] it yeah the dropout 70 kilogram and under championship bell is literally the wwe hardcore

[00:34:54] championship the flaming eye effect is a visual motive brought over from koata's debut series

[00:34:59] hitamaru sumo and at the time of this recording the final volume has not come out yet but you

[00:35:03] should check out the discord where maxi b is going to post some fun details that are revealed in

[00:35:07] that one we also had a very last minute fun facts run into us in the discord generic man said that

[00:35:13] koata's previous series got an interesting choice of broad english for anime opening so people

[00:35:17] should go check that out they posted a link in the discord and i'm sure it's quite ridiculous

[00:35:22] uh but yeah and then shall we get into final verdict you know i never did get to mention

[00:35:26] that little theory i had on why kazuro is so freaking nuts oh what is your theory tells about it i think

[00:35:33] dad died in a mugging oh that's a good theory i think he seen grandpa kick ass and i think dad

[00:35:39] did not die naturally but that's just a theory a manga theory

[00:35:45] eming baby that's a fun one all right let's get into final verdict from tucker turns out

[00:35:50] violent is the answer maxi b pro wrestling next time please koata sensei or appellate

[00:35:54] found its footing far too late bolf's fasaurus the third best cancelled series i've read blah

[00:35:59] moomoo tragically feet couldn't save this one yeah there's a bit of a foot shot in the volume

[00:36:04] two cover that was actually the icon when i had the series downloaded and people were asking about

[00:36:08] it chicken warlord says sibling shounen tragically taps out early dakerson shonen jump

[00:36:13] knocks out another fighter diego the uh the king of fighters could never dlt the titles mma get

[00:36:19] it oh whoa i never thought about that dude rock says brothers want to punch each other generic man

[00:36:24] imagine if this turned into ron ma clornax says this marshal master retired too early gray potter

[00:36:29] says tko fichter shonen jump sports curse is the kai sensei she serves strong superb suplex

[00:36:35] swiftly oh that was super badass when she did a german suplex during the fight yeah i kicked

[00:36:40] ass i didn't know that was legal in mma yeah that was so cool that was probably the best

[00:36:45] fight in the series honestly oh yeah kermit the grog take teens tussle to take title captain clueless

[00:36:51] i have new flop enters the ring much like how a new six word subrede reader enters the ring

[00:36:56] last the red rose jump says no to girls fighting loser great technique but lacking knockout power

[00:37:03] lufi zero three two one boy grapples with his family's trauma meru commissions open mma without

[00:37:10] heel is bad mma portal man finding romance in mixed partial arts red blade timid tactician grapples

[00:37:19] with familial heel resident warhammer nerd punching down is in bad taste real how many

[00:37:27] concussions does asumi have riley making me angry marshal manga axed s bubby why doesn't

[00:37:34] japan like muscle girls scott shonen jump declares their complete cowardice spike round

[00:37:41] begin series end lights out st digi z the evil sleepy ai a near knockout loses the technical

[00:37:50] laughing fool dante and virginal as mma fighters the wolf the wood the trafulgar dot dot dot

[00:37:57] eight nine ten and it's out watch tower ah one of my favorite prog thrash bands fighters

[00:38:03] promising career tragically cut short gold jedi 64 slow start equals one hit ko leet wow that's an

[00:38:13] old the damn that's also a sub word and shout out to them for sending it via an email instead of

[00:38:21] absolute chat and speaking of absolute chats um jordan what was yours what if baki was less insane

[00:38:27] what's your one these are caslows hierarchy of needs of knees oh my god fuck that's my

[00:38:34] six word summary now that's so much better you have to put it from dave with david assistance tag team

[00:38:41] with david yeah that's a tag team six word summary brody what's your six word summary take him to

[00:38:45] the mat nito i love it nice and then jordan brode in the wrong set but that's okay and then

[00:38:51] mine was oh brother where art thou plot hey i was talking in the discord about imagine if the

[00:38:57] cohen brothers made a sci-fi movie about time travel called oh brother when art though she's honestly

[00:39:03] want to see co brothers make like a high uh like a sci-fi movie now right you think they would have

[00:39:08] done that right yeah so anyway uh i guess now it's time for flop or not uh brody why don't

[00:39:14] she start things off do you think the series is a flop or not i do not i was hooked left or

[00:39:20] right i feel you i feel you oh i think it was a double whammy i was knocked out till the end that

[00:39:25] that when i swiped past the last panel yeah i was so god of god i was like time for the fight and

[00:39:31] then i looked down at the bottom and realized it was the last page no jordan you've already said

[00:39:36] you love this well i feel like this wasn't a knockout i feel like it's a decision like a

[00:39:41] split decision there's a lot of flaws of the series this series really hit a low point at times

[00:39:46] i really wanted it to keep going i was but i think part of that is just because i wanted more

[00:39:54] of this kind of manga like this is not the best version of this manga but it is a kind of manga

[00:40:01] that i would really like to read more of so ah you know the offer has an extremely successful

[00:40:06] series you can go read after this i guess i'm just saying fuck it not a flop i wish it kept

[00:40:11] yeah i never thought it was a certified flop but i do think that final fight that women's fight

[00:40:17] really was something excellent and it kind of makes me feel like it's actually almost kind

[00:40:21] of worth reading it to really see like what is a very well done three chapter fight especially one

[00:40:26] between two women that doesn't sexualize them at all so you know what fuck it i'll say this

[00:40:30] isn't a flop hell yeah whoo i feel like you were about to say something yeah no i've never

[00:40:36] been in as invested in a side character's like motivations as i was with now he should have just

[00:40:43] made the manga about her actually women's m may probably would have been a really fun topic

[00:40:47] sadly it's shonen i mean there's literally a shonen series that's about rock ago that has

[00:40:53] a female protagonist that's fair that's fair no but i mean maybe i think that would have been

[00:40:58] pretty good probably better i agree but yeah i judging from how that fight was probably the

[00:41:04] best in the series it felt like it was getting better as the series went on which is part of

[00:41:09] the reason why i was so upset when it got canceled like no no it's it's getting there it's finally

[00:41:14] getting there i know yeah so that means we've got no recommendation so jordan is this better than

[00:41:19] chainsaw man no it's not no it's definitely not bro did you retrain saw me and you guys

[00:41:23] turned me onto it actually hell yeah i almost said train saw man i had heard about it everywhere

[00:41:30] and like obviously being in the anime manga communities and then i had just put it off until

[00:41:36] i think it was when i talked to david on my podcast that i was like okay i'm gonna i'm gonna bite the

[00:41:41] nail because these guys won't shut the fuck up about chainsaw man we will not shut the fuck

[00:41:44] up about chainsaw man and we never will nope absolutely not that's our promise all right

[00:41:48] and that's my promise though is that we need to go to wrap off wrap off marshal mathers

[00:41:53] assuming me and my i'm brico mode oh god all right so let's get into wrap up brody i want

[00:41:58] to say thank you so much for joining us today where can our listeners find all the great things you do

[00:42:03] um most podcast platforms i'm not on youtube yet but spotify apple pretty much everywhere else you

[00:42:10] can find uh fendoms with brody aughtway i've also got a couple other podcasts coming up the pipeline

[00:42:17] one's called hey anime where basically people just recommend me an anime i watch it and then we

[00:42:22] shoot the shit about it and uh yeah other than that i'm uh on facebook twitter or x i guess uh

[00:42:29] kind of instagram i guess and uh we got a discord as well oh that's awesome i also say

[00:42:34] profs jord for making the opening and ending theme being a great co-host and helping with the editing

[00:42:38] thank you david for everything that you do i want to say profs marlisle for the awesome cover

[00:42:42] find her online at lilamur and notice for being our generous art benefactor thank you dylan

[00:42:46] for assistance with editing you can find his podcast anime out of context at anime out of

[00:42:50] context dot com congrats on your i think it's your 300th episode we're a little behind but my

[00:42:56] apologies but congrats on that thanks to talker maxi b for assistance with pronunciation translation

[00:43:01] other miscellaneous research he could find us on access shown in flopcast tumblr shonen dash

[00:43:05] flop and our website shonenflop.com we're also on spotify it into youtube or wherever else you

[00:43:11] get your podcasts and as we've plugged a few times come join the show and flop discord to

[00:43:14] open to everyone patron or not k out of us talk about anime games whatever else is on your mind

[00:43:19] finally to in the show notes or on our site and if you've been enjoying the podcast and want to

[00:43:23] help us keep going consider subscribing to our patreon we won't be able to keep the show running

[00:43:26] without their support you get a ton of awesome perks we've been releasing like over 30 exclusive

[00:43:30] episodes covering manga that are too long in fact jordan what are we releasing in april for

[00:43:34] our listeners in april we are dropping the final part of our coverage of the itchinoze

[00:43:43] deadly sins i got it oh my god this is the last time you'll have to plug it yes oh my god i i've

[00:43:49] been struggling so hard to say that right oh man you could even be listening to our warm

[00:43:55] body sitting in on the recordings help us pick what's coming up next or get episodes two days

[00:44:00] in advance you can find us at patreon.com slash shonenflop and i want to give a shout out to

[00:44:04] our wonderful patrons starting with her dolphin dads we have glornak rachel my wonderful wife

[00:44:09] we had a fantastic time in dc she is just a bundle of fun um and shon won't compliment my jokes but

[00:44:15] former weeb's wife will play with them like bongos oh my wow moving on down to the ravioli tier

[00:44:20] where you can actually get magic the gathering tokens of my dog there they came out fantastic

[00:44:26] print them out at staples uh anyone who operates to the ravioli tier anyone who becomes a bear

[00:44:29] you know fuck anyone who upgrades becomes a ravi or a ravioli but yeah yeah you know what i mean

[00:44:34] i'll send you a ravioli token i'm sending jordan to some bro do you want some ravioli

[00:44:37] dog tokens heck yeah oh man i made a bunch i even made an exclusive one that it's a treasure token

[00:44:43] that has a picture of my wife with ravioli um that's super exclusive because i only made one so i'm the

[00:44:48] only one who possesses that token that is fine yes you get to keep that we have chris eva lady t

[00:44:55] matt teah and trevor schectner moving on down to the king of the forest we have 090z bandit stew

[00:45:00] my girlfriend chad mason jakey meandrik alway justin hefner kirby mott marty max baker

[00:45:06] brylee 314 sarah hydro who i just saw um i think my social security number just got compromised

[00:45:14] by that comment t wolfwood who is joining us right now thank you t wolfwood for supporting the show

[00:45:18] forever and tommy boy i also want to give a big thank you to our galactic ball federation officers

[00:45:22] and our peace children thank you so much i love all of you are all my children yep and then jordan

[00:45:27] i think you have something you want to talk about where you got to do an interview with gary oldman

[00:45:32] that's definitely it no i got to do an interview i got to do an interview with uh mark schwarz who

[00:45:38] played the character nuke from the tv show van pyres which my other podcast mission ignition

[00:45:44] is about yeah so i now know things about that show that i don't think anybody else knows because

[00:45:52] nobody has really tried to dig into to van pyres i wonder why but no it was great it was so much

[00:46:00] fun to talk about him there's uh brody for context there is a character on this tv show van pyres who

[00:46:06] was credited as being played by himself and there was a rumor for a long time that he was secretly

[00:46:12] gary oldman i now have an answer to that please listen to it when it comes out it's not out

[00:46:18] yet but yes definitely check it out yeah all right well that's it so let's move into signoffs yeah

[00:46:25] thank you so much for joining us tune in next monday as we give our first thoughts on

[00:46:29] tukama gary harah this has been david this has been jordan and this has been brody and even

[00:46:33] listening to show the flop give a flop and flopping yeah bye