#50 Hungry Marie (Ft. Rem from Anime Out of Context)

[Transcript by Ozyrat]

David  0:00  
[Intro music] Welcome to this episode of Shonen Flop where we talk about manga series in Shonen Jump that didn't make it big. I'm David. 

Jordan  0:16  
I'm Jordan. 

David  0:17  
And this week we are talking about Hungry Marie, and we are joined by our guest today, Rem. Rem, thank you so much for joining us.

Remington Chase  0:25  
Uh, thank you guys so much for having me. For those who don't know I'm Remington Chase, a co-host of the Anime Out of Context podcast.

Jordan  0:32  
Small fry. [Rem laughs] 

Remington Chase  0:34  
I'm known for, uh, hating all things anime [Jordan laughs] and weeby related so this should be fun. [laughs]

David  0:40  
Listeners, did Rem hate this manga? Guess what? I don't even need to ask him because I know he did. [everyone laughs] But it's okay. We really tried to find a series that we thought you would like. It's so exciting to know Anime Out of Context. Definitely, kind of think of it as, like, a sister series right now. Rem is like, don't use that term. [Jordan and Rem laugh] It's really been just awesome, I want to say, just talking to you, Shaun, and Dylan. It's like that scene in Gravity Falls where I should make that a picture with the three journals. But it's your three pictures now that you are the third piece [Jordan and Rem laugh] of the Anime Out of Context guest puzzle. So now we finally have all three on the show. 

Jordan  1:14  
Yes, yeah.

Remington Chase  1:15  
Finally completed it.

David  1:16  
So shout out to you, Shaun and Dylan. You guys were super awesome. And Dylan actually works on the show. He is our awesome editor. That is where all of our lovely patrons helped pay so that we can get some editing time and it just makes my and Jordan's life a lot easier where we know we don't have to handle every single element of editing the show. So just a big shout out to you, Dylan. It's really been a game changer for my ability to sleep during the week.

Remington Chase  1:39  
Oh yeah. 

David  1:39  
Knowing that the audio is in good hands.

Remington Chase  1:40  
Yup. 

David  1:40  
Rem, though, this is, I believe you told us, your first ever manga that you have read, is that correct? 

Remington Chase  1:46  
Yes. 

Jordan  1:47  
What an intro.

David  1:48  
[laughing] Yeah.

Remington Chase  1:48  
[everyone laughs] Right? I've had a-a couple, like, small glimpses into it. Couple page things but never a proper 'alright, let's read multiple chapters' manga.

David  1:48  
Did you have any struggles reading manga for the, like, first time? Though it sounds like you've read manga before just not read it if that makes sense.

Remington Chase  2:05  
I knew how to read manga but I-it still took some getting used to. I had to, like, reprogram my brain a little bit. [Jordan laughs]

David  2:12  
It kind of screws you up, like, I-I since I read manga and then, uh, we have a comic book book club because-Rem, do you read American comics at all? 

Remington Chase  2:19  
[laughing] I do not, no. 

David  2:20  
Okay, well, let me just plug that. So we have Luke, awesome Community Manager. So every month because I want to read more American stuff, we have a book club and it's really hard when I go from reading a manga and then I'm like, oh, fuck, I just read the first 30 pages of this backwards. [everyone laughs]

Jordan  2:35  
It's an automatic thing too. Like, I'll just--

Remington Chase  2:38  
Yeah.

Jordan  2:38  
--be reading a-a page and I'm just like, why doesn't this make sense? And I realize it's because oh, I read it backwards. 

David  2:44  
Yeah. 

Jordan  2:44  
Oops.

David  2:44  
I love [Rem laughs] those-those memes where it's, like, the panels are from right to left. And it's like, you dumb, fucking weeb, I bet you read this correctly. [Rem laughs] You're like, [Jordan laughs] ah, you got me. [laughs]

Remington Chase  2:53  
See, what-what's interesting because I haven't, like, read Western comics either, I--

David  2:57  
Mhm.

Remington Chase  2:57  
--also had to get used to the pictoral element of it. So it's not just the right to left, but a-at one point, I was like, alright, I'm not at all looking at the pictures [laughing] here. That's [David laughs] somewhat important to do. [laughs]

David  3:10  
[laughing] Oh gee.

Jordan  3:10  
Look at-look at this fucking nerd. He doesn't even read comics. [Rem laughs]

David  3:14  
So when Dylan said you read, you-you mean, like, just the books-that words-like, no pictures?

Remington Chase  3:20  
It's true. It's true. My secret is out. 

Jordan  3:22  
Isn't that boring... [Rem laughs] without, like, pictures?

David  3:24  
I bet there's not a single sexualized 16 year old and anything you read. [Jordan and Rem laugh]

I do have one, uh, certain Russian novel. 

Jordan  3:28  
Yeah, I was gonna say, David, don't worry. There's a lot of books that still do that. 

Remington Chase  3:37  
Yeah, [laughing] unfortunately. 

David  3:38  
[laughing] Well, I was gonna shit on Dress-Up Darling, which was the episode we were [Rem laughs] all on together. [Jordan and David laugh] I was about to say, uh, School Judgment, but they were fucking 12 years old. 

Remington Chase  3:48  
Oh, no! 

Jordan  3:49  
Yeah. Oh.

David  3:51  
For context, we had a series where, imagine Dress-Up Darling, same level of sexualizing the kids but they're 12.

Remington Chase  3:57  
Oh, no. 

Jordan  3:59  
It was the first series that we didn't finish.

David  4:01  
Our guest said I'm not comfortable to continue reading this [Rem laughs] because we got to the pool episode where all the kids are in bikinis. 

Remington Chase  4:07  
Yeah.

Jordan  4:07  
Yeah. 

David  4:07  
Someone at YouTube yelled at us saying 'you didn't finish reading it, you pieces of shit'. 

Jordan  4:11  
Oh, fuck you. 

David  4:12  
Yeah, we were like, fuck you. And then I had to read it anyway because we are going to be on another podcast that asked us to fully read it. So...

Remington Chase  4:13  
[laughs] Oh, God.

Jordan  4:19  
Ehh, that's fine. We got to tear it apart more. It deserves it. Ugh.

David  4:23  
Yeah, and guess what? It still is shit. Even after we stopped reading it got worse. 

Remington Chase  4:27  
Yeah, I bet.

Jordan  4:27  
It wouldn't have been good if it wasn't pedophilic. But the fact that it was does make it, like, 10 times worse. 

David  4:33  
Yeah.

Jordan  4:33  
It's always interesting to me when, uh, people are like, oh, no, if you stayed with it a little longer. Or if you ignore this one thing, then all of a sudden, it's good. And it's like nine times out of 10. Look, this is one of my major critiques. But even with that being gone, even if that wasn't a factor, it's still not good. [laughing] So...

David  4:51  
Exactly.

Jordan  4:52  
It's, like, a sign of other problems that are occurring in the manga too, I feel.

David  4:57  
Yeah, [laughing] but anyways, speaking of signs of manga, why don't we get into the manga details because I know, Rem, you are gonna have the time of your life telling us [laughing] why you thought this series was a piece of shit but we do have to get [Jordan laughs] through the boilerplate stuff. So this manga was created by Tamura Ryuuhei which, Jordan, what else has this author done that we've covered? 

Jordan  5:16  
Uh, cool frog and dolphin?

David  5:17  
Yes, that is completely right. Cold tone and porpoise. You're right.

Jordan  5:21  
Yeah, uh, it's Hard [David laughs] Cop and Dolphin. 

David  5:23  
Yes! Which is, [laughing] Rem, unfortunately I kind of wish you'd read that because that is one of our favorite series and [Rem laughs] that's why we picked this author because we're like, maybe he's got another hit. [laughs] Yeah, this is not as good as that. We literally named [laughing] a patreon tier after that manga because we liked it so much. So actually shout out to our-- 

Jordan  5:40  
Guys, guys, I like this series. [Rem and Jordan laugh]

David  5:44  
Wrong opinions aside...

Remington Chase  5:46  
It seems like you're spoiling that-that are-are you not going to create a patron [David laughs] name for all of your hungry Maries out there? Is that not...

Jordan  5:53  
Starving Marys.

David  5:54  
[Rem and David laugh] Yeah.

Jordan  5:54  
[in a Southern old woman's voice] Mary! Mary, you hungry?

Remington Chase  5:58  
[laughing] Oh no.

David  5:59  
[laughing] Yeah.

Jordan  5:59  
 I'm sorry. It's-it's definitely a Marie. I'm [Rem laughs] sorry. Marie!

David  6:04  
So shout out though to you, TWolfwood, for being a Dolphin Dad's tier. I appreciate it. This series though, was also by the creator of Beelzebub, which was a pretty big success and had an anime adaption. I need to check it out. 

Jordan  6:14  
I do too. 

David  6:15  
I heard though it's very difficult to find the translation. I think that's why Joey said he hasn't read it. 

Jordan  6:20  
Really?

David  6:20  
Joey said he hasn't read this either. Which surprised me.

Jordan  6:23  
It's difficult to find Beelzebub's translation? Because that was, like, a popular manga.

David  6:27  
Legal translation. 

Jordan  6:29  
Oh, I see. That still shocks me.

David  6:32  
But this series ran from February 27, 2017 to October 16, 2017. And it was 33 chapters in four volumes. So we actually broke our length rule for Cop and Dolphin because it was really good. Which is why, Rem, I'm sorry, we gave you something on the longer side for your [Rem laughs] first manga. Because we're like, it'll be great. He'll love it. Woops! [Rem laughs]

Jordan  6:49  
I think you're being a little-little harsh here. 

David  6:51  
I didn't hate it but I was just like, I really was hoping this was gonna be... 

Jordan  6:55  
Rem was not gonna like it anyway. Alright? Rem doesn't like things, David.

David  6:59  
I know that's why I'm really afraid for him to read Chainsaw Man. [Jordan and Rem laugh]

Jordan  7:02  
Rem, if you can't appreciate Chainsaw Man that's on you. [Rem laughs] 

David  7:06  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  7:06  
All I know about Chainsaw Man is that you guys adore it and [laughing] talk about it all the time.

David  7:13  
Fun fact, it was in my contract with Dylan, when he became our editor, that we have right to first refusal to be guests on your episode covering the anime. [Rem laughs] But based on that 200th episode, I am very afraid if you don't like the anime because then me and Shaun might just, like, leave for an hour. [Rem laughs] Cuz [laughing] what's gonna happen between you and Jordan, fighting over it. So though, [laughing] anyway, oh, we're a bunch of characters. But speaking of characters, why don't we get into about the manga, and hear Jordan's awesome plot summary. 

Jordan  7:43  
[Dio from JJBA, "The world!"] Present day 2017. Taiga Bijogi lives in his family's Taoist temple which is built next to a Catholic church where Anna Sagiyama lives. Taiga loves two things: kung fu and Anna Sagiyama. Anna loves two things: Taiga Bijogi and using necromancy to resurrect the ghost of Princess Marie Therese Charlotte, the obscure real life daughter of Marie Antoinette, the lady from the French Revolution. [Dio from JJBA, "What?!"] 

After a comedy of errors, Taiga ends up possessed by Marie Therese, turning him into a girl! Uh oh! [Dio from JJBA, "What?!"] Whenever the ghost of Marie gets hungee, Taiga gets his body back, but, Marie is in control. This changes pretty soon. It's gonna get confusing from here. Taiga goes around kicking ass while looking like a cosplay Princess resulting in him getting transferred by, I guess, the Knights Templar to Anna's all girl school. At this point, they do something where Taiga's body has just, like, totally disappeared and now they just possess a doll when not controlling the body. [Dio from JJBA, "What?!"] It's just gonna get, like, harder to follow from here honestly. 

Team Marie comes into conflict with Lilith, the queen of the school, because Marie is a real princess and [Dio from JJBA, "What did you do just now?"] she's offended Lilith is using her fucking culture as a costume. Thankfully for Lilith, though, seven [Dio from JJBA, "Why are you alive?!"] hot guys transfer over, as well as Taiga. And she recruited most of them except for Leo, who's, like, this weird incest guy. That's way too into his sister. They call him a siscon. It's fucking weird. [Dio from JJBA, "Grrrr, hold your tongue."] 

Leo never actually matters. The Marie squad has a showdown with Lilith in a game of cops and robbers. Things look bad but yay, they win when Taiga deus ex machinas his body back to life temporarily and beats people up which Lilith thinks is hot. [Dio from JJBA, "Feels good." ] Then the doll turns into Taiga's body with the doll's head and then into the dolls body with Taiga's head. Marie has a pickle of close beam which winds up never getting used. And at this point, you just completely lose track of who's talking to who and when. But yeah, Anna and Taiga go on a date to-to straight out, like, a fucking Marie Antoinette museum exhibit where they find an old incense burner with a witch in it. [Dio from JJBA, "It's incredible."] Turns out that this whole thing is just Marie's fault because when she was alive, she had a crush on her Japanese attendant and cast a spell to resurrect him and be with him forever. Meaning that even though she was helping Taiga get with Anna, she was secretly in love with Taiga the whole time. Uh oh! [Dio from JJBA, "Oh."] This also never actually matters. Anna goes for a walk and gets kidnapped by the two most forgettable bodyguards ever written in a manga and she is brought to meet [gasps] her mother? [Dio from JJBA, "Is that the best you can do?"] 

Okay, so heads up, for some reason chapter 29 of Hungry Marie is replaced in a lot of versions with an April Fool's joke translation called, I shit you not, Horny Marie. [Dio from JJBA, "I feel nauseous."] It's homophobic, transphobic, and most of all, it's just really fucking lame with, like, the most tired pronouns jokes you could possibly think of. [Dio from JJBA, "Dio feel sick."] It's pretty clear that nobody gives a shit about this series, if that's allowed to remain up there. But it's obviously not the fault of the series or the author. So I just wanted to bring that up [Dio from JJBA, "My head is splitting."]. Not that you're missing very much though because the series is pretty much over at this point. Marie Antoinette starts a zombie apocalypse to take her daughter's body for herself. [Dio from JJBA, "How can this be happening?"] But Marie Therese uses deus ex machina powers [Dio from JJBA, "Dogshit."] to defeat her mom and sacrifice herself except she doesn't sacrifice herself, she reincarnates as a small child because none of this ever actually mattered. [Dio from JJBA, "Dogshit."] The end. [Dio from JJBA, "The grand finale was unexpectedly simple."]

David  8:31  
Yeah, I honestly didn't fucking know what really was happening in this series. [Jordan and Rem laugh] But I made a list of every character I thought mattered and then literally before the recording I was like, guys, I think these five characters, we don't have to talk about because I'm pretty sure several characters were shown to be really important and never showed up again. So I just deleted them. 

Jordan  11:42  
Yeah.

David  11:43  
Definitely a common trend in-in this manga that--

Yeah. 

Remington Chase  12:03  
Every few chapters, they'd be like, oh, wait, now we have this new cast of characters.

David  12:07  
But let's save that for why it sailed-failed in just a minute. But, first of all, let's just actually say who the characters that matter are. So let me start with Bijogi Taiga. So I think Taiga-this is, like, our second or third Taiga we've encountered?

Jordan  12:19  
I think Taiga is just a cool name that people use a lot. 

David  12:22  
Yeah, like Rem or Jordan. 

Remington Chase  12:23  
[laughing] Yeah, yeah. 

Jordan  12:24  
Hey, never David. 

David  12:26  
Yeah, so he's like-fuck off. [Jordan and Rem laugh] We literally read manga that had the name David in it.

Remington Chase  12:31  
[laughing] Oh my God. 

Jordan  12:31  
We did! It's true! 

David  12:31  
[laughing] Shaun was on that manga episode.

Jordan  12:34  
Aww, Rem, you should read Build King. [Rem laughs] 

David  12:35  
No, he shouldn't. 

Remington Chase  12:36  
[laughing] I'm very skeptical.

David  12:39  
It's probably, about in terms of quality, about on par with EX-ARM.

Remington Chase  12:43  
Oh, fuck. 

Jordan  12:44  
Build King is absolute trash. 

David  12:46  
And the creatorof Build King got arrested for soliciting a child prostitute. So...

Remington Chase  12:46  
Jee-zus. 

Jordan  12:50  
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. 

David  12:52  
I mean, fucking, carte blanche to make fun of the creator as much as you want.

Jordan  12:55  
And that was before he got famous. So Shonen Jump's got no excuse. 

David  12:59  
Yeah. So anyway, speaking of people who aren't a pedophile, he is in love with an age appropriate girl. 

Jordan  13:04  
Yes.

David  13:05  
He knows kung fu. He has, like, a super great best friend. Wholesome guy, doesn't have a lot of, like, personality that's not, like, shonen traits, for lack of a better term.

Jordan  13:15  
I like Taiga a lot. His coolness wasn't the main focus of the manga--

David  13:21  
Yeah.

Jordan  13:22  
--but it would come up, and I liked that. I remember the one guy was just like, dude, I was training in the woods fighting bears. And then Taiga saved me. And then Taiga is just like, hey, I guess I was in the woods at some [David and Rem laugh] point. I don't know.

Remington Chase  13:35  
One interesting [Jordan laughs] thing about Taiga and sort of the-with most of the characters is that I feel like the author didn't figure out exactly what-who the characters were until around chapter 15 and onwards. 

David  13:46  
[laughs] God, yeah. 

Remington Chase  13:47  
Like, initially Taiga-it's like, oh, he's a bit of an awkward outcast. But then midway through, it's like, oh, actually, everybody in the entire town thinks that he's the biggest, coolest, badass around. So just sort of ignore what we said [laughing] earlier.

Jordan  14:02  
Rem, would you be shocked to learn that the last series we read also took about 15 chapters to build up steam? I mean, the last series you read by this guy? 

David  14:11  
I was gonna say we didn't read [laughing] 15 chapters of [Rem laughs]  School Judgement, Jordan.

Jordan  14:15  
Damn, maybe that's when it got good. [Rem laughs]

David  14:17  
It didn't because I kept [laughing] reading. 

Jordan  14:19  
Oh, well, nevermind then. 

David  14:20  
So School Judgement is about a child court system where kids are lawyers for kids. [Rem laughs] Except this one adult is like, I have special permission to have legal battles with children [Rem laughs] because author thought that's a good idea to completely make everything insanely one-sided by having a grown [Jordan groans] man be in court-in children's court.

Remington Chase  14:40  
But why? [laughs] Well, uh, Jordan, to-to clarify, it's not saying like, oh, it didn't pick up steam till then, or even, like, something people might think, oh, it took that long for the character to develop. It was just the character was one way and then they gradually figured out, oh, actually, that's not what we wanted the character to ever be. 

David  14:59  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  14:59  
This is actually what the character is and has been all along, just ignore that. [laughing] Like...

Jordan  15:03  
I didn't feel like it was that jarring. I felt, like, uh, the implication was that Taiga was unaware that this is how other people saw him. I kinda liked that. Unlike a lot of manga series that are romances and-we kind of brought this up on the My Dress-Up Darling episode too. Where it's like, usually you can 100% see why the guy is into the girl but you have no reason why the girl's into the guy.

David  15:27  
Yeah. 

Jordan  15:28  
But in this series? No, I get it, dude. [David laughs] I just like a badass. 

David  15:32  
God, Iwish I was Taiga.

Jordan  15:33  
Yeah. When Taiga's not around, I'm like, where's Taiga?

David  15:36  
He's, like, who Jim Naruto wishes he was. 

Jordan  15:38  
Exactly yeah.

David  15:39  
[Jordan laughs] For refer--I love how, uh, just because Rem's not familiar we have to explain everything. So Jim Naruto was from Tokyo Shinobi Squad which was essentially an alt-right manga that somehow got [Rem laughs] published in Shonen Jump. 

Jordan  15:48  
Yeah. 

David  15:48  
And not to brag. We had one guest refuse to read it. 

Remington Chase  15:51  
Fair.

David  15:51  
So we had to find [Jordan laughs] someone else.

Jordan  15:53  
His name isn't Jim Naruto. It's Narumi Jin, but I mean, fuck that guy. So...[Rem laughs] Whose name is [laughing] Jim Naruto.

David  15:59  
Yeah. And he's, like, the coolest guy ever. He's got electric powers. He's mastered all these techniques. He speaks, like, 12 languages. He has, like, a supermodel girlfriend. 

Jordan  16:05  
Yeah. 

David  16:06  
Like, it's the biggest wish fulfillment bullshit.

Remington Chase  16:09  
Yup.

Jordan  16:09  
They go to a town where everybody who lives there's a terrorist.

David  16:12  
Yes, [Rem laughing] it's one of our favorite episodes, Rem, if you have a chance to listen to our show, if you're not tired of us by the end of this. 

Remington Chase  16:17  
Oh

David  16:19  
And Issen and Mr. T are some of the bad guys.

Jordan  16:21  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  16:21  
That sounds like true chaos.

Jordan  16:23  
It is true chaos. Chaos reigns, Rem. [Rem laughs] Chaos reigns.

David  16:27  
Alright, but chaos control. Let's get back into it. So [laughs], do you guys want to get into the second main character? So, Rem, why don't you tell us about his sidekick?

Remington Chase  16:36  
Oh, yeah. So we have Taiga's best friend, Utsuki Mamoru. He's a frivolous friend. He's-he's all--

Jordan  16:42  
I love that part. [laughs] 

David  16:44  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  16:45  
He's big. He's boisterous. But also, he's really stupid. And, [David laughs] canonically, no one except Taiga likes him.

David  16:53  
Yeah. Fucking mood.

Jordan  16:55  
He's a-he's a ladies man, too. You know. [laughs] He's one of those teenagers.

David  17:00  
I feel like he was the only character that had, like, really tangible character development rather than, like, the author, like, rebooting someone's personality.

Remington Chase  17:07  
Okay, I think that there was supposed to be [laughing] character development. [David laughing] I can see that he's one of the few characters who has, like, some scenes that imply character development, [laughing] I'd be willing to say that much. But as for actually having character development, I would probably disagree. 

David  17:24  
That's fair.

Jordan  17:25  
So the author has been breaking the fourth wall the entire time. [David laughs] So basically, constantly, like, and sometimes it works better than other times.

Remington Chase  17:24  
Yup.

Jordan  17:34  
I felt like with Mamoru, that was the time where it really worked, because he starts saying like, I'm not a protagonist. I'm frivolous. But he said that and it's like, alright, well, that isn't just breaking the fourth wall. There's something deeper there where he's like, no, this is how I view myself. And I don't view myself as a protagonist that has a lot of metaphorical implications, blah, blah, blah--

Remington Chase  17:55  
Yeah.

Jordan  17:56  
--whatever. So I feel like it worked there as opposed to some other place. 

David  17:58  
Understandable. 

Remington Chase  17:59  
I really like the idea of Mamaru and-and his role in the story more than I like the overall execution of Mamaru.

Jordan  18:08  
Mhm. He's got cool sunglasses though. 

Remington Chase  18:10  
Man, his sunglasses. [laughs]

David  18:12  
I like the scene where he pretend-[laughing] where he dresses up. Like, Taiga--

Jordan  18:16  
[laughing] That's so good. 

David  18:17  
--by putting a wig on, no one believes him.

Remington Chase  18:19  
I still don't know why that even happened? Th-because there was zero plan or even, like, idea there. I think that moment only existed for the cliffhanger because it has no narrative justification.

Jordan  18:32  
I think there's a lot of things in this series that work in the moment. And then you think about it...

Remington Chase  18:32  
[laughing] Yeah. 

David  18:32  
Yeah, there's a lot of where it's like, man that-that was a really funny joke, but it didn't contribute anything. 

Remington Chase  18:43  
Yeah. 

Jordan  18:44  
Yeah! 

David  18:45  
But I know it's very hard not to critique the series in this section. So let's just--

Jordan  18:48  
Yeah.

David  18:49  
--keep going rattling off. So, Jordan, why don't you tell us about Anna?

Jordan  18:51  
Anna Sagamia. She is Taiga's love interest, or the-the main love interest that he has, and she lives next door to him. And he's had a crush on her for a very long time. And she has had a crush on him. 

David  19:03  
Awww. 

Jordan  19:03  
They can't express it, David. It's like if Love Rush wasn't nearly as creepy. 

David  19:07  
[laughs] I know, right? 

Jordan  19:09  
Yeah, she does magic poorly. Like that little thing... Umm, no, she's a member of the sect of the Catholic Church that worships Marie Antoinette's weird daughter who's based on a real human person that existed and died at age 72. So... 

David  19:24  
Yeah. 

Jordan  19:24  
I don't really know, uh, know when this happened, but whatever. But yeah, she's just kind of girl. [laughs]

David  19:31  
She's just kind of there. Their romance kind of-is weird. 

Jordan  19:34  
I like her generally. Umm... 

David  19:36  
Yeah. 

Jordan  19:36  
But yeah, it's kind of hard to [laughing] describe her. 

David  19:39  
Yeah, it's ok. Much like her dad, who I don't actually know if her dad has a name. I just still to this day wrote it as her dad in my notes. 

Remington Chase  19:46  
Yeah, I don't remember his name. 

David  19:47  
So we guessed he was the best character in this series based on the first chapter. Rem, what do you think? Does he keep the crown as the best character of this series?

Remington Chase  19:55  
I would say no. He's fine when he's on screen. He fills his role quite well.

David  20:00  
I think I agree, though, actually, uhh, we can talk about, Jordan, I guess we'll talk about it in the chibi, who we think was the best character in this series because there's no one I was like, wow, I really love this character.

Jordan  20:08  
No, this was a little bit more of an ensemble cast. A little bit-a little bit more balanced in terms of quality. 

David  20:13  
Yeah, but there is definitely some [inaudible] so Jordan, why don't you tell us about the third main protagonist plucked from history herself.

Jordan  20:21  
Oh, yes, Lady Marie Therese Charlotte. I actually got confused because there's apparently two Lady [laughing] Marie Therese Charlotte's--

David  20:28  
Aw geez.

Jordan  20:28  
-- in French history around the same time. One of them is Marie Antoinette's daughter. The other is not. [Rem laughs] 

David  20:35  
Hmm.

Jordan  20:35  
Like, the French need to come up with more creative things to name their children is what I'm saying. And this Lady Marie Therese Charlotte, she was in line to become the queen of France and then the French Revolution happened and she was rushed away to Japan.

David  20:51  
[laughs] I still want to know how he got this idea. [laughs]

Jordan  20:54  
Yeah, like, I have no clue where he got this [laughing] idea from.

Remington Chase  20:58  
I think it sorta feels like one of those ideas that-it's just so out there that it helps sort of marketability because you're like, oh, here's a real wacky premise, right? It's not just a body swapping manga, it's a body--

Jordan  21:10  
Rem.

Remington Chase  21:10  
--swapping with French monarch to be and it's like, oh, okay.

Jordan  21:14  
Rem. 

David  21:14  
Yeah. 

Jordan  21:15  
Rem. [Rem laughs] I don't think that anything about this helped [laughing] its [Rem laughs] marketability.

Remington Chase  21:21  
[everyone laughs] Ok, I'm not saying it succeeded. [laughing] I'm not saying it was a successful attempt.

David  21:27  
Yeah, cuz it's based on a very heated-very hated historical [Jordan laughs] figure.

Jordan  21:32  
It's based on a hated historical figure's daughter because nobody knows fucking anything [laughing] about Marie Therese [Rem laughs] Charlotte.

David  21:39  
If Jordan looked it up, I legit if someone's like, is this a real person? I would say I honestly don't know. [Rem laughs]

Jordan  21:44  
[David laughs] Yeah, no, that's why I [laughing] had to look it up. It's, like, when you're making a manga about, uh, like, Anastasia and you're like, nah, Anastasia's too mainstream. Let me go deeper here.

David  21:54  
We gotta go which Anastasia? 

Jordan  21:56  
[laughing] Deep cut Anastasia. 

David  21:58  
Yeah. [laughs] So, though, old sassy grandpa. I thought it was his grandpa based on, I guess, misreading [Rem laughs] in the first chapter. [Jordan laughs] I like how she is very on the uptake. She's not, like, some senile or stuck in her way lady. 

Jordan  22:10  
No, I like her. 

David  22:11  
I mean, that's the thing. Like, the series had a lot of really fun characters. It was just-it didn't have any, like--  

Jordan  22:15  
It wasn't held together well. There were a lot of great elements to this series, but, like, the actual stitching together [Rem laughs] of it left a lot to be desired. 

David  22:24  
Yeah. And then I honestly feel like we have one more character in the notes, but I don't think we really need to talk about him because he literally disappears after, like, chapter 15.

Remington Chase  22:30  
He is implied to be very, very important. He-like, he's implied to be, like, the least important main character basically.

Jordan  22:37  
Marie's love interest. Yeah.

David  22:38  
 All right. So why don't you tell us about him? 

Remington Chase  22:40  
[laughs] So, uh, this is--

Jordan  22:41  
Let's talk about Totaroki, yeah. [Rem laughs]

David  22:42  
[laughs] Oh, God.

Remington Chase  22:45  
So we have, uh, Nahori Leo, who-he's, uh, mysterious, and a very straightforward guy. It's implied that he has a dead sister or it's actually just the dog and he is a major siscon, super into his little sister.

Jordan  22:58  
Oh, isn't he? 

David  22:59  
Right? 

Jordan  22:59  
Jesus. Ah. Rem, I feel like we should have had Shaun on this episode.

Remington Chase  23:04  
Oh, god it hurts. [Jordan laughs]

David  23:06  
Fun fact though. Shaun was on the one manga that had a very, like, legitimate incest plot by sheer chance. 

Remington Chase  23:13  
Oh, poor guy.

Jordan  23:14  
Yeah, he didn't get away from-from the incest [laughing] either.

Remington Chase  23:17  
Like, the siscon stuff isn't a major deal until, the sort of, the waterpark episode where it gets-it gets pretty weird then. 

David  23:24  
Yeah.

Jordan  23:25  
Yeah! 

Remington Chase  23:26  
But-and yeah, Leo, he's implied to be possible love interest for Marie Therese, but then just stops [laughing] existing, I guess. 

Jordan  23:34  
Yeah, the author started getting notes from his editor about hey, hey, motherfucker, hurry the goddamn hell up.

David  23:41  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  23:42  
Unlike with all of the other side characters that got forgotten about though, Leo. It wasn't just in a couple chapters. Like, it was like, oh, he was there. He was prominent. 

Jordan  23:51  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  23:51  
They made a big deal about him for a hot minute before immediately and suddenly scrapping him.

David  23:56  
Yeah, that's some of the issues the series had.

Jordan  23:59  
You know something, Rem? You might be shocked to learn that that is not [Rem laughs] uncommon to read. 

David  24:03  
Yeah. 

Jordan  24:04  
[Rem laughs] To discover in a canceled manga. When it's just like, wow, it seems like this entire plot got derailed all of a sudden.

Remington Chase  24:13  
[laughing] Yeah.

David  24:13  
One of Jordan's favorite, i tell c, where it literally rebooted itself three times in 15 [Jordan laughs] chapters.

Remington Chase  24:18  
[laughing] Oh, my god. [David laughs]

Jordan  24:19  
I will defend that series to the ends of the earth! 

David  24:23  
But you cannot defend this series to the ends of the earth because we are here in the fuckin' critique. Master Rem kicking it off with why it failed. Time is--

Jordan  24:32  
Oh, my God.

David  24:32  
--on the clock. You have six minutes. No, I'm just kidding. [Rem laughs] Rem, please let us start the meat of this discussion and tell us what were some things that stood out to you as issues you had with this series.

Remington Chase  24:41  
We've already touched a little bit upon, uh, some-some of the potential reasons. It doesn't feel very cohesive. It scraps a lot of characters, and I think there's actually a single word that captures at least 80% of the flaws and failures of Hungry Marie, and that is inconsistency.

Jordan  24:59  
Mmm.

Remington Chase  24:59  
I-I think you see inconsistency in the characters. For example--

David  25:03  
Yup. 

Remington Chase  25:04  
--Marie, when we start to see her, it's almost as if she's two characters that aren't two sides of the same character. Like, Marie, she's very delicate and proper and doesn't know about Japan. But then she's also very sassy and sarcastic. And it's not like these are the same. They figure out Marie's character.

Jordan  25:21  
And also learned Japanese-- 

Remington Chase  25:22  
Yeah. [laughs]

David  25:23  
Yeah.

Jordan  25:23  
--very quickly. [laughs] And has been [Rem laughs] following along. 

Remington Chase  25:27  
Yeah. [Jordan and Rem laugh]

David  25:27  
Yeah, but-but kinda not?

Remington Chase  25:27  
Yeah.

David  25:30  
She's like, all our intel is, like, 20 years out of date. Which doesn't make sense. Why would you be 20 years out of date if you're a fucking ghost?

Remington Chase  25:36  
But she also has memories of always watching, like, Taiga when he was young or whatever. It doesn't make a lot of sense there. They figure out her character. And, in fact, I think Marie is one of the better characters when they--

Jordan  25:47  
Yeah, I agree.

Remington Chase  25:48  
--figure out --

David  25:48  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  25:48  
--what the fuck they're doing with her. Uh, but that takes the half of the entirety of it. So it's not ideal. Another thing that's wildly inconsistent is the premise of the actual show. Because initially, it's like, oh, okay--

Jordan  25:48  
You call it the show too! 

Remington Chase  25:52  
I would do that all the time, I'm sure.

Oh, we do that all the time--

Aw, hell yeah.

Jordan  26:05  
--too. That's-that's why I called it out. It's why I [Rem laughs] pointed it out. it's like...

Remington Chase  26:09  
[Jordan laughs] It's really easy to do. 

Jordan  26:11  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  26:12  
So initially, it's like, okay, so Taiga and Marie, they share each other's bodies. Like, they switch into each other's bodies with each other's minds. And she only comes out when she's hungry. But actually, maybe, it's gonna be just her--

Jordan  26:25  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  26:25  
--body and his body's lost, and there's a stuffed animal they can switch into, but actually, he can sometimes come out as a ghost, or maybe he can just come out in his corporeal form, or actually, he can have his body and she can have her body but his body has a stuffed dog head, or maybe the stuffed dog body on his head, or actually just give him back his body and her body and don't even worry about it at all. [laughs] It's like, oh, okay.

Yeah, I don't understand how this works at all.

I think that there is, like, a 10 Chapter spread in the middle of this series where it is very good. 

[laughing] Yeah, yeah.

Jordan  26:59  
But even during that time, there are moments where they're talking, Taiga and Marie talking, and I have no clue who's saying what.

David  27:07  
They could have done something, like, cool where she had, like, frilly, like, textboxes, and Taiga could have had, like, jagged textboxes. He's like, tough guy. 

Jordan  27:13  
Yeah.

David  27:14  
And then you know. Like, I would probably have to reread this series two or three times to have fully understood how the body swapping worked.

Jordan  27:19  
Yeah. 

David  27:19  
Like, we told Rem, Ranma 1/2, literally hot water turns him into a boy, cold water turns him into a girl. I probably got that backwards but whatever. Super simple, [Jordan laughs] same with Dandadan, same [laughing] idea where he loses his pants or not depending on if he touches cold water. [Jordan laughs]

Remington Chase  27:34  
Hungry Marie started with a system that made [David laughs] sense.

David  27:38  
[laughing] Rem's just no response. 

Jordan  27:39  
[laughing] No response.

David  27:40  
That's manga for you.

Remington Chase  27:41  
I just let it wash over me. [everyone laughs] Uh, but Hungry Marie, it started out all right. So when Marie gets hungry, she takes over. When she is full, she cedes control back to Taiga. And it's like, okay, that's a system we all understand. And then--

Jordan  27:56  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  27:56  
--they start changing it with very little to no justification until it just basically feels like ah, this is sort of what I wanted to do. And so I'm just gonna do it, I guess. And it's like, okay, but why? It's like, eh.

Jordan  28:10  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  28:10  
A couple times it's like, oh, yeah, I guess the grandma did something. But then later, it's just ah, this is just how it's gonna be for a while, I guess. 

David  28:17  
Yeah. And like, when was her body able to act like a real body? Because he's like, oh, her hair is stuck like this. I can't take the clothes off. And then at some point, that's not true. And I never feel like I found the moment when they explain it.

Remington Chase  28:30  
They play it off like a joke. 

Jordan  28:31  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  28:31  
Oh, yeah. Apparently, he just never tried to despite the first complaint coming from him trying?

David  28:38  
Because it seemed like I can't use the bathroom because of this. 

Remington Chase  28:40  
Yeah, but then it turns out, oh, actually scrap everything we've just said about it. He can't use the bathroom because he's too nervous about touching her body or something. 

David  28:43  
Fucking stupid. 

Jordan  28:43  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  28:43  
But another thing that's horribly inconsistent is, like, the setting because initially, it's like, okay, they attend an all boys school. Actually, let's switch to the all girls school actually though it's a coed school. You know what, don't worry about school, it's not that important of a setting. [laughs]

David  29:02  
Nothing is too important. The series just-he was literally like, I consider this, like, an honorary anthology series like Level E.

Jordan  29:09  
Yeah. 

David  29:09  
Where nothing was consistent and nothing mattered. 

Jordan  29:12  
This series really, really struggled against setting up any kind of status quo.

Remington Chase  29:18  
And the reason why I think that's such a problem is because you have two genres, despite the fact that at the very beginning of the manga, it's like, hey, this isn't some delinquent fight manga. This is just going to be a romance manga. And then the romance takes the backseat for the vast majority.

David  29:36  
Was there romance? They set it up in the first chapter, which is a cool idea. And then it's never really brought up again. 

Remington Chase  29:42  
It has its moments but overall..

David  29:44  
Yeah.

Jordan  29:44  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  29:44  
And the problem is with the genre as it's trying to do, it tries to have romance. It tries to have, like, huge stakes. You literally have, like, a portal to Hell open up at two points and only two points.

Jordan  29:55  
Oh, my God. [Rem laughs]

David  29:55  
And it doesn't it come up for, like, another 15 chapters. 

Remington Chase  29:57  
Yeah, it's, like, it happens once and then-and the zombies, for some reason, try to strip people and then it happens at the very end again, it's like okay. But, like, stuff like this, it needs a strong status quo. If it was something that was just slice of life, which they dabbled in which unfortunately, it doesn't work because it's not the primary genre. If it was just slice of life, just pure zany silliness, then having wildly inconsistent rules would work out better, but it's clear--

David  30:23  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  30:23  
--that the manga wants you to be invested in, okay, how are we going to get them back in their bodies? And I can't be invested in that conflict if you keep changing up the rules. If it's like, alright, this is what you need to do. Cool. I understand. I understand what they need to do, but actually, maybe that's not it. Oh, okay. So what do I want them to do then? I don't even know at this point.

David  30:42  
Like, this is vastly more complicated than Nen which is probably the most complicated [Jordan laughs] you should ever, ever make a power system, and--

Jordan  30:49  
Yeah. 

David  30:49  
--I'm gonna call dibs on the first one to tell Rem about the power system of Build King where, Rem--

Jordan  30:54  
Go ahead.

David  30:54  
--check this out.

Jordan  30:55  
Go ahead. [Rem laughs]

David  30:55  
So [Jordan laughs] Build King has a power system is named after colors and they have a chart which one is--

Jordan  31:01  
Rem, real quick, wait, David, real quick. Rem, do you see any kind of issue with having a power system be colors in manga?

[laughing] Yeah, yeah. Well, oh yeah. Unless it's a [Jordan laughs] fully colored manga which, you know... 

Nope.

David  31:15  
Which it's not.

Remington Chase  31:15  
[laughinig] Yeah, then uh... 

David  31:16  
So you have to just take their word on what color [Rem laughs] you're using. [Everyone laughs] Here's the thing, the chapter after they set up what the colors are, someone comes in and says, ah, but I have gold powers. [Rem laughs] Making your entire diagram of what the power colors were completely wrong a chapter later. 

Remington Chase  31:30  
[laughing] Oh no.

David  31:35  
And in 10 chapters, we see three other exceptions to the rules of how those power systems work. 

Jordan  31:41  
Don't forget [laughing] rainbow. Which, fuck you. 

David  31:44  
Rainbow, gold--

Jordan  31:45  
[laughing] It's like, you can't do that. 

David  31:45  
--black, white. Yeah, just go read Build King and be really mad and then we'll-we'll-- 

Remington Chase  31:46  
Oh no.

David  31:48  
--come back.

Jordan  31:51  
Listen to our episode on Build King. Don't read it.

David  31:54  
Fucking, actually that was our winner for Best Episode last year. So--

Remington Chase  31:56  
Wow.

Jordan  31:56  
Yeah.

David  31:56  
--shout out to Great Big Sword.

Jordan  31:58  
If you listen to one episode of Shonen Flop make it that one. 

David  32:01  
Yes, the episode we said was our Best Episode. Jordan, you're killing it. 

Jordan  32:04  
Yes, yes. 

David  32:05  
All right. I feel like ultimately this is still some of the same issues. One thing I want to talk about that wasn't brought up at all, I feel the art at times he just kind of got lazy and it's--

Jordan  32:12  
Yeah.

David  32:12  
--weird to say off model when it's manga but you can see where people's faces and proportions just did not seem right. There were a lot of times when Marie's face just, like, maybe had an assistant draw it but she did not look proper, like, how the quality that we saw in the first chapter.

Jordan  32:25  
The thing is that you saw this every now and then in Hard-Boiled Cop and Dolphin but it was--

David  32:30  
Yeah. 

Jordan  32:30  
--a lot rarer. There would be just, like, occasional panels where, like, mmm that face looks a little too long or, uh, that head looks a little short or whatever. 

David  32:41  
Yeah. 

Jordan  32:41  
Significantly more noticeable in Hungry Marie. I also feel like this series' biggest issue, and maybe this author's biggest issue, is that it does take him, like, 15 chapters to really figure out how to use his characters. This happened in Hard-Boiled Cop and Dolphin too, where the series just suddenly had a-had, like, a jump in quality. Like, in the middle of the series. 

David  33:02  
Yeah. 

Jordan  33:03  
I don't think it really hurts its following because the thing about manga is that, especially the way that Shonen Jump is structured right now, you really got to come out swinging.

David  33:11  
Yeah, I mean, he only got 30 chapters for both series because he made a big hit before. 

Jordan  33:16  
Yeah.

David  33:16  
Both series would have gotten axed by probably 15.

Jordan  33:18  
I also feel like maybe, um, he's a guy that, like, the editors and stuff, like, I think they like-they like his manga even--

David  33:25  
Yeah. 

Jordan  33:25  
--if other people don't and I get it. Like, there's a lot to love in his work. 

David  33:30  
Yeah, yeah, Jordan, I think that's a really great point talking about the positives in his work, so why don't we take that as an opportunity to move into what it did well, where I'll kick that conversation off. It's ironic that I-my last complaint was the art has issues but the art when he is, like, on model there are some very good art. 

Jordan  33:45  
Yes. 

Remington Chase  33:46  
Oh yeah. 

David  33:46  
And those splash pages where you, like, the fucking-the first time the zombie hell that was amazing. Cop and Dolphin similarly, Rem, has some of the best art we've ever seen in Shonen Jump manga. You can see when he really spends his time on a piece of art, it is very, very well done.

Jordan  33:58  
This guy is very good at composition. It's one of the most difficult aspects of art to master because, like, it has nothing to do with, like, kind of how much time you spend on someth-on a specific drawing. It's like, are you laying it out correctly? And this guy is doing that very well. 

Remington Chase  34:15  
Oh, yeah. 

Jordan  34:15  
Usually. Like, just in the-in the angles he chooses, the shots he chooses to draw, you know. The st-stuff like that. His-his ideas about what to show in a panel. Really advanced stuff. Really high quality shit.

David  34:29  
Yeah. 

Jordan  34:29  
This guy knows how to make a manga. He is talented. 

David  34:32  
Yeah, you can tell this wasn't his first manga. 

Jordan  34:34  
Absolutely.

Remington Chase  34:34  
Yeah, I think this really comes out, like, as you mentioned with the undead zombies and stuff like that, especially towards the very end. They're sort of what I think could slash should be, like, the quintessential photo of the manga, but I don't think it actually works out that way, but he should be, is dual Marie and her mother in one body, but it just looks like Marie, don't worry about it.

David  34:54  
Yeah. 

Jordan  34:54  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  34:55  
It's Marie, in the midst of all of these dark zombies and it's like, she's so pure and bright and all the zombies are dirty and grotesque. And it's, like, a single panel page and it looks phenomenal. And it's like, yeah, all right. It's stuff like that. I vibe with that.

Jordan  35:14  
It's just a shame that the Marie Antoinette shit was so clearly introduced because the author knew he had to end the entire series in three chapters. 

Remington Chase  35:21  
[laughs] Yes.

Jordan  35:21  
But, you know, that's to be expected with a-a series that we read on this show, you know, and in the author's defense, he did find out three chapters before the end of the series--

David  35:31  
Which is pretty normal. 

Jordan  35:32  
Yeah, I really don't know if I have a [laughing] better suggestion with what he should have--

David  35:37  
Yeah.

Jordan  35:37  
--done than what he did, you know?

Remington Chase  35:38  
They decided to go for a very ambitious but poorly done ending when, I think, they could have done a lot simpler, but well done ending.

Jordan  35:49  
I-I do also want to call out something, um, and this is kind of a what it did well slash what it did poorly kind of thing, which is the-the way the author breaks the fourth wall--

David  35:58  
Yeah.

Jordan  35:59  
-- it feels like it's often, uh, a way to retcon stuff.

David  36:03  
Yeah, like, being trope savvy doesn't give you a free pass to being very tropey.

Remington Chase  36:07  
Yeah, it's like--

Jordan  36:08  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  36:08  
--sometimes when they broke the fourth wall, I was like, oh, this is genuinely entertaining and clever. 

Jordan  36:12  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  36:13  
And then a lot of time, I was like, okay, so this is just a lazy way to get past this problem without addressing it then I guess. 

Jordan  36:20  
Like, you clearly are aware that it's lazy, too. Like, that's-that's the whole thing. Yeah.

David  36:25  
It's, like, how Arrested Development had the one good instance of product placement ever. And then no one ever can make that joke again. Where, uh, fucking, the lawyer is eating at, like, a Burger King. 

Remington Chase  36:34  
Oh, yeah. 

David  36:34  
He's like, wow, this is a great sandwich. And the narrator's like, it certainly is a great place to have a burger, Burger King. And I was like, that's it. That's the one time you can make fun of the product placement. Anything else, you're literally just trying to sell us on product placement.

Remington Chase  36:45  
[laughing] Yeah. [David laughs]

Jordan  36:45  
I mean, you know, but usually the example people point to is Wayne's World who did that, too. [inaudible]

Remington Chase  36:51  
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

David  36:52  
I'm a little bit more, uh, dignified. [Rem laughs]

Jordan  36:56  
[David and Jordan laugh] I see more of an Arrested Development fan, ahhh.

David  36:58  
Actually, Wayne's World would be a great movie night. So, OzyRat, put that one-put that, uh, shout out to OzyRat, who runs the movie night now. But, yeah.

Jordan  37:04  
Hi, OzyRat. 

David  37:06  
OzyRat's great. Anyway, so speaking of great things though, so what else would you guys say stood out as positive? Rem, in particular, I'd be curious to see what else you enjoyed about this.

Remington Chase  37:14  
A lot of the individual components, like, if you read a single chapter in isolation, I think you'd be like, oh, okay, this is pretty enjoyable. Like, I don't think it's anything special, but it's-it's nice. It's pleasant. The humor is-is decent quality. And you'd be like, oh, and I'm interested to see what happens next. The problem is, what happens next may be completely irrelevant, or completely undo what you--

Jordan  37:38  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  37:38  
--were just interested in. 

David  37:40  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  37:40  
And so it's very hard to get invested because of the wonky pacing and transitions and just creative choices that are made. I-I think, though, that the individual components, it's like, the ingredients are really good. It's just how they ended up using them in the dish kind of messed it up. 

Jordan  37:57  
Yeah, like, you'll be reading this and you might be like, kind of confused and stuff, but then there'll just be, like, a really good joke. Like, they're trying to figure out what Taiga is going to wear because, uh oh, he got morphed into having a dog's head, [David laughs] a plush head. Those are some really funny panels where they were just showing him like, what shall I wear? And then the queen of the high school who, uh, Lilith, I'm sorry that-one of the goth names--

David  38:24  
Yeah. [Rem laughs]

Jordan  38:25  
--just appears in his window. And they're like, wait a minute, this is the third storey, how'd you get here? And she's like, oh, I noticed you were standing by the window. So I grabbed a crane and then blocked off the entire [David laughs] row.

Remington Chase  38:36  
That actually is, uh, a really good example. Because yeah, though, that moment in of itself, it's--

Jordan  38:40  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  38:40  
--humorous and it works well. But that overall chapter doesn't have much relevance to anything. And then the setup for that chapter is one of the worst in the entire thing, because it's okay, well, he gets two tickets, and he's going to take Anna and she also, without him knowing, also got two tickets, but oh, I guess his two tickets, they quickly get ruined. Oh, but she has her tickets. So it's fine. And all of that happens in just a few pages. So it feels like there's going to be conflict, but there just isn't any?

I liked that she asked him out and especially--

David  38:42  
Yeah.

Jordan  38:42  
--after we saw the scene where her dad was explicitly telling her not to--

David  39:18  
Mmhm.

Jordan  39:18  
--and made Anna seem cooler. Like, it was, like--

David  39:20  
Yeah.

Jordan  39:20  
--okay, yeah. Anna's like, you know what? No, I like you. Fuck this shit. Yeah, let's go-let's go on a fucking date.

David  39:26  
Yeah, I think that was a really cool idea that she knew and he for-he forgot that he told her. 

Jordan  39:30  
Yeah, I also like that there's a little bit of a less will they, won't they--

David  39:35  
Yeah. 

Jordan  39:35  
--energy here because it-it is more no, Anna is clearly into him and also, is receptive to it. And--

Remington Chase  39:43  
Mmhm.

Jordan  39:43  
--it's like the people in this manga feel less stupid--

Remington Chase  39:46  
Yeah.

Jordan  39:46  
--then a lot of the [laughing] other series we read like this, you know? 

David  39:50  
No one's acting that crazy, unreasonable.

Remington Chase  39:52  
Yeah, th-there's a lot less of the unnecessary miscommunication trope that is all over the place and always so frustrating, right? 

David  39:59  
Mhm. 

Remington Chase  40:00  
It's not a harem manga, but it sometimes feels like it wishes it was. 

David  40:04  
Yeah. [Rem laughs] I mean, it wishes--

Jordan  40:06  
Yeah.

David  40:06  
--it was a lot of things, but I feel like we could definitely save that for where could have gone just because we are still in the positive [Rem and David laugh] section. 

Remington Chase  40:12  
Fair, fair.

Jordan  40:13  
The aspects of this series that are positives are also kind of the negatives. 

Remington Chase  40:18  
Yeah, yeah.

David  40:19  
But speaking of different manga, why don't we get into where it could have gone? So, Rem, as our manga expert, please tell us what [Rem laughs] are some things that you think this series could [Jordan laughs] have done differently to have made it probably not gotten canceled?

Remington Chase  40:30  
[laughs] They have the right ingredients, right? The author needed a better idea of what they wanted to do going into it so that you don't--

Jordan  40:39  
Yes.

Remington Chase  40:39  
--spend 16 to 20 chapters figuring it out during publication. [laughs] Like--

David  40:45  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  40:45  
--that-that time should be spent developing the story for the readers, not developing it for you. Not figuring it--

David  40:52  
Mmhm. 

Remington Chase  40:52  
--out as an author.

Jordan  40:54  
Okay, Rem, but to be fair, that is literally how Araki has always written manga.

Remington Chase  40:59  
I think that's a fundamentally flawed method that will continue to cause problems. 

David  41:04  
Jordan, shot in the dark, but I have a feeling Rem probably doesn't like JoJo.

Remington Chase  41:09  
[laughs] I do not.

Jordan  41:09  
That tells you everything you got to know about Rem's taste.

Remington Chase  41:13  
I've seen the first two seasons of JoJo and they were both quite bad. [Jordan laughs] 

David  41:18  
It's okay.

Jordan  41:19  
See, everybody, you gonna take-you gonna really side with somebody who doesn't like JoJo? 

Remington Chase  41:24  
Go listen to Anime Out of Context episodes on them. I have great reasons for the most [David laughs] part.

Jordan  41:30  
I'm sure you feel like [Rem laughs] they're great.

Remington Chase  41:31  
But-but yeah, so I-I feel [Jordan laughs] like having a broader plan, and this is sort of a problem with a lot of manga though I think it's exacerbated here because of the--

Jordan  41:41  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  41:41  
--weekly publication style, right? Where you need to keep turning out and you don't have a chance to go back and rework stuff if you come up with new ideas, but that's why it's all the more important to have really strong ideas from the get go so it doesn't come across as a clusterfuck.

Jordan  41:50  
It's kind of sad that, like, artists and writers aren't given that time because sometimes it really does just take a little bit to get-to get a feel for, uh, for how to best write your series. I mean, shit, like, if Star Trek: The Next Generation was canceled, like, before it figured out how to make good episodes then it would have been cancelled immediately. It took them a little bit to get going.

David  42:17  
Yes, it's literally called growing the beard, is--

Jordan  42:18  
Yeah. 

David  42:18  
--when a serious figures out what it needs to do. Like, I mean, we've definitely read series that very slowly starts to get a lot better like--

Jordan  42:27  
Yeah.

David  42:27  
--umm, like Fire Force. Fucking pretty boring start, and then it goes to crazy town. It gets really interesting. 

Jordan  42:33  
JoJo! [laughs]

David  42:35  
Yeah, part one and three are generally considered the worst parts. Rem, for context, season four is the one where David Bowie is the bad guy [Rem laughs] is probably the best-the best--

Jordan  42:43  
Yeah, yeah.

David  42:43  
--animated season of JoJo, just a heads up if you wanna give that one a shot.

Jordan  42:46  
Season four is Twin Peaks JoJo. 

Remington Chase  42:49  
[laughing] Oh, my God. 

Jordan  42:49  
That's what I call it. Yes. It's great.

Remington Chase  42:51  
But yeah, so I think where it could have gone, I think it just needed a stronger identity. 

David  42:57  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  42:57  
If it focused on the romance, I think it could have been better. If it focused more on just the comedy, I think it could have been better. If it focused on the delinquent fight or on the sort of mystery and how do we get it-get out of the situation? If it had any of those as larger priority then I think it would have been a better show than--

David  43:17  
Mmhm. 

Remington Chase  43:16  
--jumping around haphazardly and often without much purpose because it has the right stuff for any of those individually, but the way it tried to combine everything, I-it just doesn't work.

David  43:17  
Yeah, I want to say, by the way, there was definitely some philosophy ideas or, like, ideas for a series I think would have been more interesting than what they did. The whole Taoism versus Christianity is a really cool plot element and something I've never seen in a Shonen series before. 

Jordan  43:42  
I'm surprised whenever I see an actual Catholic Church in, uh, in manga. 

David  43:47  
Yeah, I also want to say my favorite part of this series, no cap, was when they had to exorcise the ghosts and they did it by punching the ghost. That would have been [Jordan laughs] super cool. See fucking, like, swol ass exorcist [laughing] fighting ghosts. Hell yeah!

Remington Chase  43:59  
I think that could have been a good moment, but for me that was a trash moment in Hungry Marie. In isolation, I liked the moment but it--

David  44:07  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  44:07  
--wasn't a good moment in this comic, right? It wasn't a good moment in this manga.

Jordan  44:12  
You'd like in an abstract [inaudible].

Remington Chase  44:14  
Yeah, basically, if you gave me a show, that was just the grandma and Taiga, right? And they just do silly as shit exorcisms--

Jordan  44:22  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  44:22  
 --that looks like a fine one. That would also work. It's like, there's so many directions they could have gone and they just poke every direction and then ignore it.

Jordan  44:30  
Feel like this author really likes to get clever with his ideas. And sometimes you just want to be like, dude, dude, you got the skills just write a shonen [Rem laughs] manga.

Remington Chase  44:39  
Yeah, it feels like they need someone to help them sort everything out. 

Jordan  44:43  
Scale it down a little bit. 

Remington Chase  44:46  
They maybe need a collaborator slash ghostwriter. So this author gives all of the ideas, right? They-they provide the ideas and provide the rough draft, and then they give it to just anybody else to have the rest of the control over.

David  45:00  
[laughing] That is completely fair.

Jordan  45:02  
I almost feel like the opposite. No, have somebody else write the structure and then just tell him to do that because the structure is where he's falling apart. The actual writing and, like, creation of the stuff, nah, I think he's got, it's just, like, he has no focus.

Remington Chase  45:17  
I also think that another thing when it comes to where it could have gone, I think they should have obviously had stricter rules on, like, the switching. And frankly, I think the best system that they had was the one they started with. 

Jordan  45:31  
Yeah.

David  45:32  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  45:32  
His mind and her body or her mind and his body, she comes out when she's hungry. Cool. 

Jordan  45:37  
At some points, I felt like, okay, well, this is kind of an interesting little situation that you've got them in, but it really does fuck up the overall feel of the story. It makes everything, like, 10 times more confusing.

Remington Chase  45:49  
[laughing] Yeah.

David  45:49  
I definitely think it was the strongest and I really wanted to see, like, a Slumdog Millionaire, where imagine if you guys-like, a French [laughs] Revolution trivia night. [Jordan and Rem laugh] That's, like, how he makes money outside of school is, like, working with, like, archaeologists and shit. But, yeah, it was just a fun idea, and they also really didn't make use of the fact that she was, like, someone from France. Like, we don't see any cool French Revolution--

Jordan  46:07  
No. 

David  46:07  
--facts. This could have been, like, educational. It was completely arbitrary. Like, he could have picked literally any person from history to have represented her because it didn't matter what her actual background was. 

Remington Chase  46:16  
Well, and this sort of relates to, like, what I mentioned earlier about how they didn't figure out Marie's character until halfway through, because the only parts that we see her even being a little bit of a French monarch is in the first handful of chapters. And then after that, she completely transforms. That is almost entirely forgotten about other than the aesthetic. And it's like, well, that's unfortunate because you could still have all of the sass and stuff, right? 

David  46:16  
Mhm.

Remington Chase  46:16  
But it would be, I think, more meaningful and interesting if it was, oh, yeah, no, I'm still a posh fancy monarch, but I'm also sassy as hell. Like, both of those things are [laughing] true. 

Jordan  46:51  
The part where Marie, um, because up until this moment, Taiga has been the one doing all the active stuff and it's like-and when Marie has been in place, it's kind of been like, oh, boy, oh, boy, Marie's here, Marie can't really do shit. But there's a moment where Marie does take hold of her body, and she just carries the air of being a queen. And she knows how to, like, intimidate people with a glance. And it just immediately improves her character, like, so much. Like, all of a sudden, like, she feels a lot stronger, like, a lot more in control, like, you understand, like, oh, yes.

Remington Chase  47:25  
I think she might have been a better character if we kept more of that. And if you, like--

Jordan  47:29  
Yeah. 

Remington Chase  47:30  
--it's sort of if you turned her into a little bit of a bitch, not a terrible person, right?

Jordan  47:34  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  47:33  
[David laughs] Not a terrible person, but right now, she's super compassionate. And she just really cares about everyone. And sometimes she's a little aloof, but that's it. No, I think, like, she should be a little full of herself. And she should still, at her core, be a good person, but there should be straight up times where it's like, no, yeah, she's a bit of a domineering asshole sometimes. Sometimes that works for us. Sometimes it causes problems.

No, she legitimately views herself as above everybody else. 

David  47:57  
Yes. 

Jordan  47:58  
It's not her trying to be an asshole. It's-she was literally raised as a monarch who was told that her blood makes her more important than everybody else around her. 

Remington Chase  48:07  
Yeah, and so it's like, let's see more of that. 

Jordan  48:09  
Yeah!

David  48:10  
I think that's really great point, though I do want to say speaking of overbearing assholes, we only have about 15 minutes left. [Jordan and Rem laugh] So why don't we move on to the miscellaneous thoughts? [laughs] Does that sound good to you guys? 

Remington Chase  48:10  
Yeah, sure.

Jordan  48:10  
Yes. 

David  48:12  
Yeah, my segue game, Rem, you're just bringing the best segues out of me. [laughs] The thing that stands out to me is I appreciate they actually know that "Let them eat cake" wasn't actually said [everyone laughs] by Marie Antoinette.

Remington Chase  48:32  
Yeah.

David  48:33  
So at least he showed he did the minimum amount of homework--

Remington Chase  48:35  
[laughing] Yeah.

David  48:35  
--for this setting.

Remington Chase  48:36  
Yeah, [Jordan laughs] but at least did the Google search which we can appreciate that.

David  48:40  
Yeah, that was it. That was-that [laughing] was the only stray thought I had. 

Remington Chase  48:43  
O-one miscellaneous thought I had was one of the very first lines, and you know, maybe it's just because I am just an innocent-innocent old boi. But could you guys just describe to me what a Gatlin kiss is?

David  48:43  
Uhhh...

Jordan  48:44  
[Rem laughs] I have no idea what the fuck that was. Like--

David  48:47  
[Rem laughs] You'll find out when we come visit you and Utah.

Remington Chase  49:03  
It's specifically-it was a Gatling kiss with tongue. 

David  49:05  
God, that's too much. 

Remington Chase  49:06  
Which I can almost understand a Gatling kiss if it's without tongue. I can understand, I think.

David  49:11  
But, it could be like dog kisses then. We're just aggressively licking the person in different parts [Jordan laughs] of their faces.

Remington Chase  49:16  
Okay, so I think it was Mamoru who got Gatlin kissed? I could be misremembering, but--

Jordan  49:21  
It was like a childhood bully move, I feel like. 

Remington Chase  49:24  
Yeah, and the bullies ganged up on Mamoru when he was young and Gatlin kissed him with tongue and that is just never [laughing] clarified. [David laughs]

Jordan  49:33  
No. I feel like that's supposed to be, like, some kind of childhood [Rem laughs] bullying thing. Like, the kid gave me an Indian burn or, [Rem laughs] oh man, the bully gave--

Remington Chase  49:44  
[laughing] Oh yeah, you know? It just totally works. 

Jordan  49:45  
--me a swirly or like--

Remington Chase  49:45  
[imitating a bully] Hey, nerd, come here and kiss me [laughing] square on the mouth.

Jordan  49:51  
[laughing] Yeah!

David  49:52  
Oh, God.

Remington Chase  49:52  
[laughing] Hit me with tongue, you loser!

Jordan  49:53  
[Jordan and Rem laugh] Yeah. Don't you feel silly? You just got kissed.

David  50:00  
Oh God, I don't even know what to do if this-all right, do you guys have any other miscellaneous thoughts? Or should we go to final verdict? 

Remington Chase  50:05  
[catching his breath] Oh.

David  50:05  
It's kinda-I don't really know what to say on that after that. So let's start things off with some community six word summaries first off with Tucker: too many ingredients flavors don't blend. I'm with you, Tucker. The Laughing Fool: let them eat gender bender comedy. TRoot: it's like Venom but really cute. MaxyBee: hungry for more? Nah, I'm good. GenericMan: Rose of Versailles just got HANGRY. And TWolfwood said got bored, watched Your Name instead. [laughs] It's not a bad call. So, Rem, please, what was your six word summary, my friend?

Remington Chase  50:31  
Uh, so I came into this with one but I have cheated and-and very recently added another so th-the one I came into this with was inconsistency killed the necromantic French monarch. 

David  50:42  
I like it. 

Remington Chase  50:43  
But then, you know, I couldn't help myself and, frankly, after the previous discussion, I think a great six word summary is Gatling Kiss me with tongue, nerd.

David  50:51  
Dylan's gonna do some dirty things with [Rem laughs] that, by the way. [Jordan laughs]

Remington Chase  50:55  
You know what? Hey, Dylan, [Jordan groans] Dylan, [Jordan laughs] that's not just my six word summary, Dylan. That's me speaking to you directly. All right? [laughing] Yes.

Jordan  51:02  
[in a young girl's voice] Gatlin kiss me with the tongue, sempai. [David and Rem laugh]

Remington Chase  51:05  
[laughing] Oh no.

David  51:06  
Uwu.

Remington Chase  51:06  
Oh, I hate it. [Jordan makes slurping noises] That makes me wildly uncomfortable. 

David  51:10  
All right, [laughs] Jordan, how about yours? 

Jordan  51:12  
Marie Antoinette's daughter, what the fuck? 

David  51:15  
I fucking knew that was gonna be your six word summary. [Jordan and Rem laugh] Jordan gets rewarded once again for not thinking of one ahead [Rem laughs] of time. Yeah.

Jordan  51:21  
Also, the second one is: this series loves saying "yes, and".

David  51:26  
Yes. More like yes, And-toinette. 

Remington Chase  51:27  
Ahhhhh.

Jordan  51:27  
Ahhhh, I'm moving on. 

David  51:31  
Alright. 

Jordan  51:32  
Anyway, I don't want to think about that anymore.

David  51:35  
Okay. I like you wrote two where I wrote one based on just the first chapter. Where it was: Kung-fu guy to Princess die. 

Remington Chase  51:41  
Very nice.

Jordan  51:41  
Nice. Nice. Nice.

Remington Chase  51:43  
I like the rhyme. [laughs]

David  51:44  
Thank you. Thank you. My other one based on the actual series was: plot spaghetti still leaves you hungry. 

Remington Chase  51:50  
Yep. Very fair. Very fair. 

David  51:51  
I think those were two pretty, like, eight out of 10 six word summaries.

Jordan  51:54  
From Kung-fu guy to Princess die is very much, like, a golden age of rap style [David and Rem laugh] rhyme. [raps] From Kung-fu guy [David joins in] to Princess die.

David  52:04  
Hungry Marie, kiss the sky. [laughs]

Jordan  52:07  
My name is Taiga and I'm here to [Rem laughs] say. [laughs]

David  52:10  
[rapping] We're ripping on manga in a [Jordan laughs] major way. Jordan, I'm passing the mic to you, my guy. Why don't you tell us or not? [Rem laughs] Was this series a flop?

Remington Chase  52:23  
[laughing] I think you lost the momentum.

Jordan  52:25  
[rapping] Let me just grab[Rem laughs] the mic from my main, [David laughs] MC Flop. 

David  52:30  
Yeah, MC Flop and we got-- [laughs]

Jordan  52:32  
In the house!

David  52:33  
--and we got the Shonen guy.

Jordan  52:36  
Party over here. [laughing] Put your hands in the air.

David  52:39  
I'm doing it. Alright. So, [laughing] Jordan, was this series a flop or not?

Jordan  52:42  
This is one of the series I was like, this is not a flop until I got in here. And we started having this discussion. 

David  52:48  
Yeah. 

Jordan  52:49  
It's a flop. It is close to being not just because there are enough moments in this series that I genuinely enjoyed. 

David  52:56  
Yeah.

Jordan  52:56  
It's one of those things where he's clearly a good writer. This just was not his A game or, at least--

David  53:02  
Yeah. 

Jordan  53:03  
--like, as a whole, the product, it just doesn't click--

David  53:05  
Yeah.

Jordan  53:05  
--in the way that, uh, Hard-Boiled Cop and Dolphin did.

David  53:08  
I mean, this was his Level-E where he was just trying to see what would work.

Jordan  53:11  
Yes, this is very much him just messing around. I'm glad I read it. I enjoyed--

David  53:15  
Yeah. 

Jordan  53:15  
--it. I got-I think I did get, like, a fair amount out of it. I, definitely, don't think it was, like, a waste to write or read. But it just didn't get there.

I just wish I had learned more about France. So it had felt like I, at least, got educated.

Yeah. 

David  53:27  
But, Rem, as the most educated person in the chat. What did you think of it?

Remington Chase  53:32  
I also thought flop or-in many different realities, where-where this is a successful manga, and it's great. And it works out. This is not one of them. It--

David  53:43  
Nope.

Jordan  53:43  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  53:43  
--could have saved itself. But how-how it's done. Yeah, unfortunately, definitely a flop.

Jordan  53:48  
It's one of those series where, like, it does enough right where you just feel sad calling it a flop.

Remington Chase  53:54  
It's like, you didn't need to be a flop. If you'd just--

Jordan  53:56  
You're almost there, you've got the elements.

David  53:59  
If you stayed with your first idea for the whole series, it would have been pretty good. 

Jordan  54:04  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  54:04  
If they had just kept that, if they just kept the consistency on the body swapping mechanic and rules, it still would have its flaws, but I think that would save it from being a complete flop. 

David  54:14  
You could get 100 fun chapters out of that premise. 

Remington Chase  54:16  
Oh, yeah.

Jordan  54:17  
Yeah. And it's a shame because, like, I get why he thought that he should change it. Like, initially, a lot of those changes are interesting, but they do such damage to your perception of what is going on and your ability to follow it that it's, like, not worth it.

Remington Chase  54:32  
Yeah, especially because they don't fully explore or develop any of them. They change it up radically and in crazy ways. But then they do one thing with it and then move on again. And it's like no, there's room to explore each of these but you're not exploring any of them. [laughs]

David  54:50  
Right? But I think we've all, like, are in alignment with what the issues are. So, Rem, though what would you say someone should check out instead? Since you said the series was a flop.

Remington Chase  54:58  
It's wildly difficult, I think, to give a recommendation instead of Hungry Marie because--

David  55:04  
Mhm. 

Remington Chase  55:05  
--it very much depends on what you wanted Hungry Marie to be, [laughing] right? 

Jordan  55:10  
Yeah.

Remington Chase  55:10  
So I suppose my suggestion isn't actually something I've consumed but based on [David laughs] what you guys have said I suppose I would tell them to check out the Cop and Dolphin one.

David  55:20  
[laughing] Okay [Jordan laughs] this one's for you, Joey.

Remington Chase  55:24  
It seems like it-since it's by the-the same creator and apparently much better and, I would hope, at least a bit more consistent because other than that, I mean, what-what can you say? Are you into French history? That will lead to something else. Are you into the comedy? The romance? The delinquent animes side of things? The mysterious supernatural side of things?

Jordan  55:42  
The gender bender.

Remington Chase  55:43  
The gender bending drama and comedy coming from that? But it's like, why-why do you like Hungry Marie? Because depending on that, you will receive wildly different alternatives.

David  55:54  
Now--

Jordan  55:54  
Yes. 

David  55:55  
--Rem, does this make you want to check out his, like, famous work Beelzebub which does have an anime adaption? 

Remington Chase  55:59  
Not really. [laughs] 

David  56:02  
By the way, that's about a guy who's, like, a babysitter for, like, Satan's child [Rem laughs] by accident. 

Jordan  56:06  
Oh, but of course. [everyone laughs] 

Remington Chase  56:09  
Obviously.

David  56:09  
That makes sense. So though, we are changing things up a little bit slightly, though, Jordan. So rather than saying, well, what someone should check out instead, I thought, Jordan, why don't we take it while we have Rem captive and, say, let's give him some recommendations of manga that are actually good. [Rem laughs]

Jordan  56:23  
For the record, I was going to recommend the Wikipedia page for, uh, Marie Antoinette's daughter, [Rem and David laugh] Marie Therese Charlotte--

David  56:29  
[laughing] Okay.

Jordan  56:30  
--but, yeah, um, so I suggest a series called Chainsaw Man--

Remington Chase  56:35  
[laughing] Oh, oh, do you? 

Jordan  56:35  
--another one called Chainsaw Man. Have you ever heard of the series called Chainsaw Man? I would like to call--

David  56:40  
Yes.

Remington Chase  56:40  
I've never heard--

David  56:40  
Yes. 

Remington Chase  56:40  
--you say anything about it.

Jordan  56:42  
Sir, have you heard the good [Rem laughs] word today by-by a friend Fujimoto entitled Chainsaw Man: the Book of Chainsaw.

Remington Chase  56:48  
Oh, fuck.

David  56:48  
I asked Dylan about this and he said, Rem will at least think Pochita is cute, which is good enough--

Jordan  56:48  
Yes. 

David  56:48  
--for me because--

Jordan  56:48  
Yes. 

David  56:48  
--he is--

Jordan  56:48  
Yes, yes. 

David  56:48  
--the most cute fucking thing on the planet. 

Jordan  56:51  
Pochita is objectively cute. 

David  56:51  
Yes. And he says he is the chainsaw demon that looks like a cute little dog with a chainsaw sticking out-- 

Remington Chase  57:04  
[laughing] Awww.

David  57:04  
--of his head. And he--

Jordan  57:05  
Yes. 

David  57:06  
--said his goal in life was to give everyone hugs. 

Jordan  57:08  
Yes.

Remington Chase  57:09  
I will Google Pochita right now.

David  57:11  
Okay.

Jordan  57:12  
P-O-C-H-I-T-A

David  57:14  
If you don't think that's, like, one of the cutest things you've ever seen then [inaudible].

Remington Chase  57:18  
This is gonna be a live reaction to me seeing Pochita-[laughing] oh, my God. It-it [Jordan laughs] looks adorable and stupid as fuck.

Jordan  57:27  
Hell yeah! 

David  57:28  
Dude, that's what Chainsaw Man is! [Rem laughs]

Jordan  57:30  
That's the point, yeah!

David  57:32  
But, yes. So Chainsaw Man, I'd be curious to see-I think though, unironically, I think you would like his one shot Look Back more. So I would actually recommend you read that first just to get a taste and it's not quite as zany because based on my conversation with Dylan, you seem to like more grounded, character-driven series which Chainsaw Man definitely is. But Chainsaw Man is still also absolute crazy town where it's literally a series about a man who's part chainsaw demon.

Remington Chase  57:52  
I can get into, like, crazy off the wall [David laughs] zany stuff. It's just [Jordan laughs] that, especially when things try to be both--

David  58:00  
Mhm.

Remington Chase  58:00  
--it can work. Uh, but--

Jordan  58:01  
It's very difficult. 

Remington Chase  58:02  
Yeah. Usually they sacrifice one for the other or sometimes they sacrifice both for the other, [laughing] and, well...

David  58:08  
Yes. 

Jordan  58:08  
Like, here's the thing. It's difficult to do correctly when you're just doing one of them. 

Remington Chase  58:13  
[laughs] Yeah.

Jordan  58:14  
And when you're doing both, that takes a lot of --

David  58:18  
Mhm. 

Jordan  58:18  
--or a lot of luck.

David  58:19  
Yes. 

Remington Chase  58:19  
Yup.

David  58:19  
And then for the sake of time, why don't we give you one other recommendation that's not Chainsaw Man. Rem, I am personally going to recommend, just to give Jordan some time to think about it, I think you might enjoy Witch Hat Atelier which is probably one of the few manga I've read that is actually written for children in a way that respects children. It's about-- 

Remington Chase  58:36  
[laughing] Are you calling me a child?

David  58:38  
[Jordan laughs] No. You take me as someone who appreciates a series that is for children but respects children. 

Remington Chase  58:45  
Yeah. 

David  58:46  
So, like, for instance, it's about girls who learned to be wizards. It has a very consistent power system, well written. It talks about some themes, like, they literally talk about how, like, someone creates magic to see through women's clothing and they make, like, a big deal about how that's sexual harassment and not okay.

Remington Chase  58:58  
Oh. 

Jordan  58:59  
Yes, shocking to hear in manga. 

Remington Chase  59:01  
[laughing] Yeah. 

David  59:02  
Yeah. And it's got a really interesting power system where their magic is based on writing glyphs, and he's kind of made, like, a soft alphabet. You can tell what magic they're using based on the patterns that they're writing. 

Remington Chase  59:11  
Okay.

David  59:11  
So I think you'll enjoy that. Jordan, how about yourself? If you wanted Rem to check out something that wasn't Chainsaw Man, what would you recommend? 

Jordan  59:17  
Oh, man, I just had, like, a good one. And it ran out--

Remington Chase  59:22  
Chainsaw Man Two. [laughs]

Jordan  59:23  
Yeah, yeah, well, that's coming soon. What? Wait, you mean did you [inaudible]? Is that what you meant? Boom! 

David  59:28  
That's diet Chainsaw Man.

Jordan  59:29  
No, but what I was gonna say was, um,  Golden Kamuy.

David  59:32  
Oh, that's a good series. 

Jordan  59:34  
It's a series about--

David  59:35  
I'm going to stop you though, Jordan, because that has an anime adaption. 

Jordan  59:38  
That is true. Yes. 

David  59:39  
Can you think of anything that's not got an anime? Because my other thought was Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer or Dungeon Meshi if you want to use one of those two.

Jordan  59:44  
Um, um, I-I haven't read all of--

David  59:48  
SON OF A BITCH.

Jordan  59:49  
--Lucifer. So I feel weird, [Rem laughs] uh, recommending that although I also haven't seen all of Golden Kamuy but Golden Kamuy is still very good. Um, um, um, the Demon Slayer manga is excellent. 

David  1:00:01  
Gosh, this fucking... [Rem laughs] 

Jordan  1:00:03  
Because I really love the art in the manga and the anime looks great. But the drawings in the manga are amazing, and I recommend them, alright? [Inaudible]

David  1:00:11  
Alright, alright, alright. [laughs] Anyway, Rem, thank you for us going on our diatribe about some series while we held you captive. [Jordan laughs] Why don't we talk about something that's not related to manga as we go into our shoutouts? How's that sound? So, Rem, we were so excited to have you on as our guest for our 50th episode, which we forgot to celebrate at any point in this recording before literally the very end of it.

Fitting. It's [Rem laughs] fitting. Hey, man, that's how we roll.

Yes, but now that we've said how we roll, Rem, why don't you tell us all about how you roll? And I sounded super fucking like "fellow kids", the way I said that. [Rem laughs]

Jordan  1:00:45  
I'm exhausted and David's got COVID. 

David  1:00:47  
I do. It's true. 

Jordan  1:00:49  
That's our [everyone laughs] 50th episode, baby!

David  1:00:52  
Yeah, all that coughing is literally because I [laughing] have [Jordan laughs] COVID right now. 

Remington Chase  1:00:56  
Oh, man.

David  1:00:57  
All right, so, Rem, please tell us about what's going on in your world. 

Remington Chase  1:00:59  
Yeah, so, uh, once again, I am, uh, Remington Chase, co-host of the Anime Out of Context podcast where me and my co-host, Shaun Rollins, cover all sorts of anime from the good to, at least in my opinion, usually the trash. [David laughs] He's a super weeb. I have never been into anime and, even now, four years--

Jordan  1:00:59  
An anti-weeb.

Remington Chase  1:01:08  
--going, I still really am not. But now I understand far more than I'd ever like to. You can find us wherever podcasts are found, just Anime Out of Context. We also have a Twitch channel twitch.tv/animeoutofcontext. 

Jordan  1:01:32  
Rem, one day you're gonna wake up and you're just going to discover that simply through the act of repeatedly witnessing it, you will realize that you actually love--

Remington Chase  1:01:42  
[laughing] Oh, God.

Jordan  1:01:42  
--anime, and it will ruin your life.

Remington Chase  1:01:44  
You know, genuinely, what I-what I hate? Is the fact that now anytime there's an anime reference in a non-animated context, whether that's just on social media, or in a TV show, or whatever else, I feel like 80% of the time I understand it now. And I hate that. [laughs]

David  1:02:02  
[Jordan laughs] Just wait til if you keep reading or watching Jojo, and then every single song is a JoJo reference--

Remington Chase  1:02:07  
Aw, fuck. Oh, no. 

David  1:02:08  
--for the rest of your life. 

Jordan  1:02:09  
It's true. 

David  1:02:10  
If you weren't aware, every single power in Jojo, from, like, Part Three forward is just bands where people were like, ah, my power Biggie Smalls. [laughing] Or you--

Remington Chase  1:02:19  
[laughing] Oh, God.

David  1:02:19  
--you can't stop my Green Day. 

Remington Chase  1:02:21  
Geez.

David  1:02:21  
Yeah.

Jordan  1:02:22  
Okay, but the best one in the entire series is still, like, in Part One. My name is Robert E. O.--

Remington Chase  1:02:23  
[laughs] Shutup.

Jordan  1:02:26  
--Speedwagon.

David  1:02:29  
Yeah, everyone loves Speedwagon.

Remington Chase  1:02:30  
Ah, I mean, not everybody. [laughs] 

David  1:02:33  
No, we're not letting you talk shit about the best girl in anime. [Rem laughs]

Jordan  1:02:36  
Don't. Talk. Shit. About. Best. Girl. Speedwagon. 

David  1:02:40  
Yeah, I'm pretty sure, like, r/bestgirl has, like, a bunch of waifus in Speedwagon [laughs] in the banner picture. [Jordan laughs] But anyway, speaking of best girls, I want to give props to Jordan for making the awesome opening and ending theme, being a great host and helping with editing. Props to Merliel for the awesome cover art. You can find her online @liel_mer, and Nigel for being our generous art benefactor. Thanks to Tucker with assistance for pronunciation, translation, other miscellaneous research. Thanks to Luke for being our community producer. You can find his work at lukeherr.com. Check out his super awesome podcast, D'ohMance Dawn, where he-[laughing] Rem, he is saying what if we recast One Piece characters as Simpsons characters and it's definitely [Rem laughs] a really fun podcast. I also want to give thanks to T Root, OzyRat, and Twolfwood for being our awesome transcription volunteers. You can find them on our site as they become available. And, Jordan, is there anything you want to add? 

Jordan  1:02:40  
David? 

David  1:02:40  
Yes.

[sings] You light up my life. 

Thanks, babe. [Rem laughs]

Jordan  1:03:08  
[continues singing] Thank you for editing the podcast. [David laughs]

David  1:03:31  
And you can find us on Twitter @shonenflopcast and our website shonenflop.com. We're also on Spotify, iTunes, YouTube or wherever else you get your podcast. And come join the Shonen Flop discord. It's open to everyone, patron or not. We made Rem join so [laughs] he'll probably leave [Jordan laughs] right after we record but no hard feelings. [laughing] Come hang out with us and talk about anime, games, or whatever else is on your mind. We have a book club and do regular movie nights. You can find a link to it in our show notes. I always remember, Rem, I was really honored when someone in my-in the discord messaged me and was like, hey, you're the first manga discord I joined that didn't have a hentai channel. [everyone laughs]

Jordan  1:04:07  
Makes sense. 

David  1:04:07  
And we never will. 

Remington Chase  1:04:08  
Setting yourself apart. 

Jordan  1:04:09  
Nope, sorry, guys. [David and Jordan laugh]

David  1:04:11  
Yeah, yeah, I forgot to do it for April Fool's. I was gonna add, like, a hot girls channel and then it was, like, pictures of barbecues and stuff. [Jordan laughs] But then I forgot to do it. Maybe next year. But though, if you've been enjoying our podcast and want to help us keep going, consider subscribing to our Patreon. We have a ton of awesome perks like bonus episodes on Magu-chan, Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer, and PPPPPP, which has 30 chapters, Jordan, HOLY SHIT!

Jordan  1:04:30  
Yes, it's getting good now. It's good! I'm reading it. This is a good series. I was right. Yes! Yes!

David  1:04:36  
Rem, this chap-manga had perhaps one of the worst first chapters we'd ever read--

Remington Chase  1:04:39  
[laughing] Oh, no.

David  1:04:39  
--in our entire life. 

Jordan  1:04:40  
Its grown on me. 

David  1:04:41  
Yeah, you could also even just be joining us right now like two of our awesome patrons are doing and you can join us at patreon.com/shonenflop. We are getting super close to our next goal where we're going to review a manga I made, and it also lets us hire Dylan for more editing time which really helps us be able to make a better episode. And then, on that note, I want to read off our patrons. [laughing] Do not worry, Rem. This takes about 30 seconds because we don't have 500 like you do. [Rem laughs] So we have a special treat. We have the master of reading off patron names, Rem, in the house. So he is kind enough to be reading these off. So, Rem, I'm gonna pass the mic to you, my guy. 

Remington Chase  1:05:16  
All right, so starting off with the, uh, [David laughs] very well acclaimed Chainsaw Men of Shonen Flop's, uh, [Rem and David laugh] patreon.

Jordan  1:05:22  
A true Chainsaw--

David  1:05:25  
Yes.

Jordan  1:05:25  
--Man [Rem laughs]--

David  1:05:25  
 Yes. 

Jordan  1:05:26  
Yes. 

Remington Chase  1:05:26  
First, of course, we have Pterodactyl Ghost. That is a lovely name. 

Jordan  1:05:31  
Right? [David laughs]

Remington Chase  1:05:32  
Our next Chainsaw Man we have To be fair, most people can't pull things out of the oven with their butts.

David  1:05:37  
[laughs] Which is, I think, also a patron of your show [Rem and Jordan laugh] given the name.

Remington Chase  1:05:41  
[laughing] Yes, yes. Then we move on over to the Dolphin Dad, and, uh, right now we have one exclusive, special, little dolphin dad. [David laughs] And for that it is Tracking roving animals for all loving girls and raccoons, Wolfwood. [David laughs]

Jordan  1:05:55  
Thank you, TWolfwood, thank you so much. We love you--

David  1:05:58  
You're the best. 

Jordan  1:05:59  
--TWolfwood.

Remington Chase  1:05:59  
Then we go over to all of the Kings of the Forest, and on this list we have Albie, cram ?, Gabe Landau, Jacob Andrew Galloway, Josh Robinson, Mark, Maverick, [laughs] Rachel. 

Jordan  1:06:11  
Hi, Rachel. 

David  1:06:12  
Hi, Rachel. 

Remington Chase  1:06:12  
Scarlet Myrmidon, [David laughs] Solomon Martinez, t, and THEBBKINGBBTHE. 

David  1:06:19  
Fuck! Got it in--

Jordan  1:06:20  
That is... 

David  1:06:20  
--one! HOLY SHIT! 

Jordan  1:06:20  
Yeah! 

David  1:06:20  
It usually takes me, like, five tries. [Jordan and Rem laugh] God damn, fucking Chad.

Remington Chase  1:06:27  
[laughs] Pretty based, you could say.

Jordan  1:06:31  
[inaudible]

David  1:06:35  
All right. Let me see what else-I'm gonna run some promos here.

Simping for Senpai Podcast  1:06:40  
Do you like anime? Do you want to get into anime? Do you want to know what's going on in the world of anime? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then you should come check out the Simping for Senpai podcast. We like to talk about a bunch of animes, also try to get all the new viewers into anime, read manga, and also try to spring our addiction of waifus but if you want to simp, simp for us at the Simping for Senpai podcast. We're available in a majority of your podcast apps.

David  1:06:58  
[outro music] Thank you so much for joining us. Tune in next Monday as we give our thoughts on a very interesting manga that was also by a popular creator that had a few sexual issues. This has been David. [Jordan laughs]

Jordan  1:07:10  
This has been Jordan. [David and Rem laugh] Wow, what a... whoa, put foreshadowing.

Remington Chase  1:07:15  
[laughing] This has been Remington.

David  1:07:16  
[laughing] You've been listening to Shonen Flop.

Jordan  1:07:19  
Keep on flopping, floppers! 

David  1:07:21  
Yeah, or maybe not. [everyone laughs] I should just say what series it is but we'll see what people think we're covering. 

Jordan  1:07:27  
Yeah. Oh boy. 

David  1:07:29  
All right. We could stop [laughing] recording-recording. 

Jordan  1:07:29  
Bye!

David  1:07:29  
Bye! [Rem laughs]

Transcribed by https://otter.ai