We and our guest Jeremy Kaplowitz, the Editor in Chief of Hard Drive, discuss Gen Oosuga’s Shonen Jump manga Golem Hearts.
Show Notes:
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Credits:
- Shonen Flop is hosted by David Weinberger and Jordan Forbes
- Additional editing assistance by Dylan Crider you can find his podcast, Anime Out of Context at animeoutofcontext.com
- Episode art by Merliel (IG: mer_liel)
- Cover art funded by our generous art benefactor Nigel Francis
- Episode transcriptions by The Ghostwriters: Travis “T” Root, OzyRat, and TrafalagarWolfwood. You can find them on our website shonenflop.com
In the world of Golem Hearts, creatures known as golems have become integrated with society, performing all sorts of tasks. These golems are created by the widely-respected "sorcery scholars," and obey the commands of their human masters without question. Noah is a sorcery scholar who strives to become the second best of his kind.
To that end, he travels far and wide to study unique golems around the world. This journey leads him to a certain island, where he encounters a girl named Mary and her golem Murray. As the two get acquainted, we begin to discover that there may be more to Noah than meets the eye.
[Transcript by T Root]
Jordan 0:12
[Shonen Flop Theme Song!]
David 0:12
Welcome to this episode of Shonen Flop! Where we talk about manga series in Shonen Jump that didn't make it big. I'm David.
Jordan 0:16
I'm Jordan.
David 0:16
And this week: It is our two-year anniversary! Jordan, can you believe it?
Jordan 0:21
Oh my fucking God! I can't believe it, David. What the hell?
David 0:25
What the frickin hash! We just got sponsored by Disney so we can't swear anymore.
Jordan 0:29
I thought we were supposed to stop doing this, like a year-and-a-half ago. Why are we still doing this, David? I feel trapped! Every time I get out, they keep pulling me back in.
David 0:37
I know. You're just too good at co-host.
Jordan 0:39
Oh, it's true. I ha- I have to pay off the mob. And this is the only way I can do it David.
David 0:44
Yes. I love our patrons. Legally mandated responses aside: We are talking about Golem Hearts again.
Jordan 0:52
Oh, yes!
David 0:53
If you didn't listen to it, we didn't do a Chibi because we'd already read it. So we ranked every series. So you can hear Jordan and I fighting about where to place-
Jordan 1:00
Mmmm.
David 1:00
Some series.
Jordan 1:01
And make sure you don't listen to our first, uh, recording of this, because it probably sucks. [Jordan giggles]. This is our second episode.
David 1:09
Yeah. But you know who doesn't suck Jordan?
Jordan 1:11
Uhh... Uh, who?
David 1:13
Our guest today!
Jordan 1:14
Whoa!
David 1:15
Jeremy, thank you so much for being on the show.
Jeremy 1:17
Thanks for having me.
David 1:18
Do you mind telling the audience a little bit about yourself?
Jeremy 1:20
Sure. So, I'm a comedian and writer, and I'm the editor-in-chief of the video game satire website "Hard Drive".
David 1:27
I love "The Hard Drive."
Jeremy 1:27
Oh, thank you.
David 1:28
Is it okay to say it's like "The Onion" for video games? Or is that- Did I just extremely offended you?
Jeremy 1:33
No, no, no. We ripped off "The Onion" wholesale and I take a lot of pride-
Jordan 1:37
Good!
Jeremy 1:37
In being "The Onion" of gaming, because "The Onion" started their own video game thing after us.
David 1:42
Really?
Jeremy 1:42
I would think that that would be "The Onion" of gaming, but we've stolen that from them.
David 1:46
I'm just imagining it's "Onion" but instead of an I and an O, it's a 1-0.
Jeremy 1:51
[Chuckles] It's called "Onion Gamer Network", play on IGN. It's OGN.
Jordan 1:55
Okay, okay.
David 1:56
That's lazy writing.
Jeremy 1:57
We've defeated them, and they've lost to us
Jordan 1:59
You know, they- They got a lot of stuff to do, I guess, is the thing, you know?
Jeremy 2:03
We stole our whole website from them, but we've- We've won!
Jordan 2:06
You guys wind up being, uh, "The Onion" for gaming and they wound up being "The Hard Drive" for- For "The Onion".
Jeremy 2:11
For normal stuff. For just news.
David 2:14
Oh God. Jeremy, do you have, like, a particular favorite article?
Jeremy 2:18
Um... On the website? I wou- I have no idea honestly. [Jordan laughs] You know, I'll say this: I'll pick a favorite. One of my favorite ones is: There was a big argument at the time when- Fuck! What's the- Sekiro came out.
Jordan 2:29
Mh-hm.
Jeremy 2:29
There was like- "Sekiro: Should it have accessibility issues?" Uh... Excessive- This is such a long explanation. But there was this big accessibility debate in Sekiro and there was an article on some website, "Forbes", about how there should be accessibility features. And then "Forbes" ran another article later in the day that was like, "No they shouldn't!" So we ran two back-to-back articles that was like, "Sekiro must add big anime titties" and then we ran, "No Sekiro should not add big anime titties." And I just like that one.
David 2:57
I have to say: An article I saw it today, actually, where you're like, "Video game delayed during release of own trailer."
Jeremy 3:02
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
David 3:03
And I just remember how Metal Gear Solid 4 added a joke about the game being delayed in the trailer where it said, "Coming 2008". Like write and cut it and it said, "2007". And then the game got delayed till 2008 anyway.
Jeremy 3:16
That's funny.
David 3:17
Man, that is awesome. So, I'm so excited. Uh, I know you have some other awesome things that you're doing, so I- Looking forward to you telling the audience all about your, uh, monkey business. That's a joke for everyone listen to the warm-up.
Jordan 3:28
I get that joke! I get that reference!
David 3:31
But you know what else I get? Is going into the "Manga Details". So let's mosey on there. This is created by Gen Oosuka, and this author, actually, is running in Shonen Jump right now. They created a series called Doran Dororon.
Jordan 3:44
Yep.
David 3:44
Which is [with hesitation]- Is not great, essentially. I Like how Super Eyepatch Wolf said it was probably created by a bunch of executives, based on focus group data. Cuz that is not a series with a lot of soul, which this series-
Jordan 3:56
Oooo...
David 3:56
Had some heart. But we'll get into that.
Jordan 3:58
At least one heart.
David 3:59
Yes. He also created some one-shots, which people say were a lot better. I know, Jordan, you personally liked the pilot for this series a lot more than the basic one. But we can definitely-
Jordan 4:08
Oh yeah!
David 4:08
Dive into that. And it ran from August 29th, 2016 to January 23rd, 2017. And it was two volumes over 14 chapters and- Jordan, do you remember why we picked this as our second series to cover? I know why we picked Zipman!! but I honestly can't remember why we did this series.
Jordan 4:24
I kind of just assumed it was like, "Well, we got to do another one."
David 4:28
I remember the third one was- So our first ever guest, Jeremy, was my friend Nigel who was awesome. He pays for the cover art, um, we talked about. And I just assumed he played golf, which I think everyone assumes Nigel plays golf.
Jeremy 4:40
Giving off a golf vibe?
David 4:42
Yeah. And we- So we did a golf manga because we were like, "Oh, well he'll want to talk about golf." And I was like, "So Nigel, like. what do you think of the golf?" He's like, "Oh. Well, I've never played golf at all, but it seemed interesting." And I'm like, "Wow! I just like totally gaslit myself into just assuming you would love to golf."
Jeremy 4:56
Do you know the comedian Myq Kaplan?
David 4:58
That name sounds vaguely familiar.
Jeremy 5:00
He's like a very nerdy comedian. I- I've never- I'm not like friends with him or anything, but he's a comedian in New York. I booked him on a comedy show that we did for "Hard Drive", like many years ago. Where we-
David 5:08
Yeah.
Jeremy 5:08
Would have comedians play video games in front of an audience. And I had never met him before, but I booked him on the show. And during the show, he's like, "Yeah, I've never played video games." And I was like, "What?! Look at those glasses. I thought you were a gamer." You could tell that he, like, wasn't really happy that I said that. That I just assumed he was like, super into video games. That it was very, uh, embarrassing for me.
David 5:28
Oh, gosh.
Jordan 5:29
Maybe he should, uh, have a little bit more respect for the gamers in his life, you know?
David 5:33
Yeah.
Jordan 5:34
Gamers work hard and fight for our rights!
David 5:37
Yeah.
Jeremy 5:38
I will say: He was very funny and ma- You know what? Maybe it sparked his love for it, and maybe he plays it to this day.
Jordan 5:43
What game was it?
Jeremy 5:44
Little Nightmares was the game.
David 5:46
Oh! That's a- I uh- The sequel came out like last year right?
Jeremy 5:48
Yeah. It was right when the first one came out, I think.
David 5:50
You know what we have time for Jordan?
Jordan 5:52
[Exasperated sighs] Bed?
David 5:53
To hear your plot summary.
Jordan 5:54
Oh, that too? Yeah.
David 5:55
Let's move it to "About the Manga". So fun fact: I read the plot summary the first time I did it, so I'm excited to hear the Jordan remix of the plot summary for Golem Hearts. Lay it on us big guy.
Jordan 6:04
Oh yes! Back in the old days when you- When you do- You did the plot summary. Things have changed. Things have changed around here David!
David 6:11
Podcasts have changed!
Jordan 6:12
Golems are little household appliances. You know, like the animals for the Flintstones? They're created by arcanists, who manipulate them with "golem arts", which is alchemy from Fullmetal Alchemist and less cool. Noah is a golem, that is also a young boy, who was created by his master Lamech. Who's just, like, the best, fucking dad! Like seriously man, he loves his son! Lamech wants to be the best arcanist in the world. And Noah, wants to be the second-best, because the first-best: Is his dad. He is-
David 6:46
Awwww!
Jordan 6:46
The best boy! Then a Nazi shows up, from like- It's called Chernozem or whatever. But, I don't know? Uh, it could be a stand-in for some European country. And attacks them with his own golem. He wants to kidnap Noah, because he is the number-one, special boy and also a golem. He basically kills Lemmeck, and Noah goes into Gear Four, destroying the evil Nazi golem, and hurting the evil Nazi, uh, human. Lammeck is fucking dying, though, until his friend Eir, who happens to be the 10th-best arcanist in the world, just happens to be walking by at that exact moment, and just happens to have the surgery Nen power from Hunter x Hunter. So Lammeck doesn't fucking die. Lammeck then wakes up in the hospital and begs her to teach Noah some golem arts- Trademark! So that he can defend himself from hate crimes. Eir is hesitant, but she gives Noah a golem coding challenge to stack 10 coins on their edges. And David inserted a joke here, where he says [Jordan switches to an incredulous voice] "Talk about a Stack Overflow!" So thanks David. Noah can't do it until his future rival, Erebus, happens to stop by to demonstrate that it's actually, fucking easy and Noah needs to get good, by stacking 50 coins. The next day, Eir walks in, to see that Noah stacked 51 coins. Fuck you, Erebus. And I think Eir [Ear]'s name was supposed to be pronounced Eir [Ire]. Whatever. Popcorn, David.
David 8:14
Five years later, and it's time for Noah to take the- Goddammit! He's taking the fucking Chunin Exam! Argh!
Jordan 8:19
Oh my God!
David 8:19
So- Yeah. Jeremy so many fucking of these series have stupid exams, that just kill the entire plot-
Jordan 8:24
All the momentum just dies.
David 8:25
Literally there's like an editor who's famous for jamming it in, and one series we read just was like, "Fuck you editor for making me add this to the manga!"
Jordan 8:33
Yeah. Yeah, it was great.
David 8:34
We meet some fellow students: Carles [Care-leez] a, uh-
Jordan 8:37
What's does it say David?
David 8:37
Sorry, Carles [Carl's].
Jordan 8:39
Now how could you fuck up that name David?
David 8:41
Yeah it's-
Jordan 8:41
A perfectly normal American name, Carles!
David 8:45
Yes.
Jordan 8:45
C-A-R-L-E-S. It's like Charles without the- The H.
Jeremy 8:49
[Chuckles]
David 8:49
Translation is just so fun.
Jordan 8:51
Yeah.
David 8:51
A friendly guy who's secretly kind of twisted. Jordan wrote "Joker Face".
Jeremy 8:56
If that was in there, I fully missed that subtext.
David 8:59
Yeah I did too.
Jordan 9:00
That he was twisted?
Jeremy 9:01
Yeah.
Jordan 9:02
Whenever he started attacking, he'd be like, "He-he! You know I'm kind of- Kind of dark and messed up and, uh, you might not want to mess with me. I'm a little- A little- A little- A little messed up inside.
David 9:12
We live in a society.
Jeremy 9:14
Yeah pretty much.
David 9:14
Bottom text. And Lily, who's a neurotic mess that must be protected.
Jordan 9:18
Yeah she must be protected.
David 9:19
She's the millennial representation in this series.
Jordan 9:21
Yes, yes, yes.
David 9:22
Erebus is there too, because he's the Sasuke. The exam challenge is to infiltrate the base of terrorists named Sodom which is secretly occupied by a bunch of arcanist teachers, but it's actually, really housing a random terrorist who kill all the- All the teachers. There's a boring fight and Noah wins and gets his Hunter license. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!
Jordan 9:37
Yeah, yeah.
David 9:38
Popcorn, Jeremy.
Jeremy 9:39
Eir goes to the Federation and- And argues that Noah should join, but because he's a golem they don't want him to. And then the guy who te- Does the exam: He vouches for Noah to join for some reason, and then- They, all three of them, get in. So then they're like, "Alright. If you want to do it, you can go to this place where there's a really scary Riddle Golem." And he's a Riddle Golem because that means that they're stronger, or something like that. And, uh, they get there. Oh, they're like, "Oh, the number eight and the number, like, 12 best wizards went." Or they're archanists.
David 10:10
Call them wizards. Yeah.
Jeremy 10:11
What are they call it originally? Like scholars of sorcery? And then- then like on Chapter Four, there's like, "Actually, that's too long. Fuck that."
Jordan 10:17
Yeah it's-
David 10:18
Yeah, archanist.
Jordan 10:19
Ehhhh.
Jeremy 10:19
So then they get there. The manga is like, "Oh, by the way: This is also supposed to be scary sometimes. So here's like, their mangled corpses."
David 10:27
Yeah.
Jordan 10:28
Eh... They had a little bit of a tone issue. Yeah
David 10:30
Yeah. The art style did not work for this series.
Jeremy 10:32
No.
Jordan 10:33
Nuh-uh.
Jeremy 10:33
Not at all. So yeah. Every- Every, uh, page is like, "I'm gonna be the greatest warrior who ever lived." And then it's like, "Here's the eighth-best guy, and we've ripped his eyes out of his head."
David 10:42
Yeah.
Jordan 10:42
It's like if Doom was drawn like Pokemon.
Jeremy 10:45
So then they go in there; and then they have to fightm like this, likem stupid evil golem, who can talk; and then, uh, they use the bad boy- What's his name? Erebus? He uses his special-
Jordan 10:56
Yeah.
Jeremy 10:56
Night power on Noah. They kill him, but they don't kill him, because he's gonna turn him into a good robot, cuz he's a robot lover. They have a big fight, and then it cuts to five years later. And then they're like, "Oh, Noah actually is the greatest in the world." And Noah is like, "No, I'm not. My dad is!" And he invents microphones.
Jordan 11:13
He does invent microphones. Yes.
David 11:15
Kind of invented radio, I think. Cuz-
Jeremy 11:17
Yeah.
David 11:17
He's going really far. So they're like, "You are the best inventor-man of all time, because you have invented the radio."
Jordan 11:23
He got the number-one, special boy trophy.
Jeremy 11:25
Yeah. And they're like, "How did you get it? Who cares? Cut to five years later."
Jordan 11:29
Yeah.
David 11:29
Would you be surprised that's actually pretty normal in a series? Like, "Well, we're out of time. So we're just gonna skip the entire, like, five years of writing we were gonna do and just and"- As Jordan noted, we went to- we skipped to Chapter 153 of the series from fo- 14.
Jeremy 11:42
Is that what it says?
Jordan 11:43
It's what it felt like. You know? Like-
Jeremy 11:45
That would have been a funny du- Thing for them to do though. If they just said it was 153.
David 11:48
I think Mitama Security is the closest one to doing that joke, where they actually did a joke so funny it's almost- I'm almost glad that it got canceled. Because essentially what happens is they do a timeskip and it's the two characters kind of recapping, like, the story so far. And then one of the guys is, like, "Oh, remember- Remember! It's, like: We got stuck in, like, the riddle house." And it's like, "You got your soul taken away from a demon". And she's just, "What the fuck are you talking about!? None of those events ever happened!" [Laugh break]
Jeremy 12:14
That's up!
Jordan 12:15
By the way, um- Do you know why they're called riddle golems?
David 12:18
Because you find them puzzling?
Jordan 12:19
Yeah, it's because nobody really knows why they're so strong. It's a- It's a riddle. I think that's like textually, why they're called that I'm pretty sure that's like the actual reason.
David 12:30
Alright. Let's get into the characters. I will kick it off with Noah. So Tucker had a light week this week, where we can- We know how to say that guy's name. But yeah. So Noah, he is a golem. He's bad at golem arts; Nice guy; Very wholesome. He wants to be friends with everyone. He's just, kind of, by-the-books Shonen, soulless, or, sh- Uh- Like, just lawful good protagonist, I guess.
Jordan 12:48
Yeah.
David 12:48
That's really all there is to say about him.
Jordan 12:49
He's a good boy. He's very nice. He likes his dad and dad likes him. And that's nice.
David 12:54
Yeah. Jeremy, is there anything about Noah you'd like to mention?
Jeremy 12:57
It's interesting that he has like a biblical name.
David 12:59
It's like the author kind of did research, but not really?
Jeremy 13:02
Not really.
Jordan 13:03
Yeah.
David 13:04
This is probably the most Jewish- Culturally Jewish series I've ever read, to be honest.
Jordan 13:11
There's definitely Jewish, like, influence. I mean, Lamech looks like bugging Groucho Marx.
David 13:16
He does.
Jeremy 13:18
Outside of, like, the words there isn't.
David 13:19
Yeah.
Jordan 13:20
Yeah.
Jeremy 13:20
If- If Noah was, uh, Larry David-type, I would be more interested.
David 13:25
Just fucking Larry David is the protagonist of Golem Hearts?
Jeremy 13:29
Yeah, that would be kind of fun.
Jordan 13:30
Oh, my God!
David 13:30
Oh God! Oh, man. [David stutters] Uh, Jeremy, you're gonna have some good stuff on "Where it Could Have Gone" I can tell. But, um, speaking of the dad: Jeremy, I want to give you the honor of talking about the most wholesome manga dad we have ever encountered. So can you-
Jeremy 13:41
Sure!
David 13:41
Tell us about Lamech [with extra phlegm]. Did I give an [Emphasis on pronounciation]?
Jordan 13:43
[Jordan does the same]
Jeremy 13:44
This guy- His whole thing is that he's like really stupid, But Noah thinks he's great. I appreciate that he wants to be number-two, so his dad can be number-one.
David 13:51
Oh, that was really sweet.
Jeremy 13:53
So he's really sweet, really stupid, and, uh, they throw in a tragic backstory at the end. So you don't feel too good about it.
David 13:59
I love the running joke with the coffee. How he makes a golem to make him coffee, but since he's really shitty at making golems the coffee is terrible, and he keeps forgetting and just spits out the coffee immediately.
Jeremy 14:08
I also didn't catch that. So this is the first manga I've ever read in my life and-
Jordan 14:13
Oh my God!
Jeremy 14:13
I feel like it's a little overwhelming. Like there- There's a lot going on in them and I had a little trouble following it. And I feel like I read it-
David 14:18
Don't sweat it.
Jeremy 14:19
Like I was the fucking aliens from Arrival, where I was like reading all of it at once. You know what I mean?
David 14:24
Jeremy then: Let me say, I very much appreciate it and I will happily give you recommendations of good manga to read, if you are not washing your hands of this entire media, which I could understand.
Jordan 14:33
Don't worry, we will recommend Chainsaw Man to you.
David 14:37
Yes. Legally, we, actually, have to.
Jeremy 14:39
I have friends who, my whole friendship with them, is just recommending Chainsaw Man to me.
Jordan 14:43
That's our friendship.
David 14:44
Do they want to be on the show?
Jeremy 14:45
Ha, yeah. I'll give you their contact.
David 14:47
Jordan why don't you tell us about Captain Garbo, and I can't believe he named the villain Garbo.
Jordan 14:52
So good. Um... So he's a Nazi. You want to talk about the next character now?
David 14:56
Okay, sure. That's fine.
Jordan 14:59
There's really nothing to him. It seems like he's trying to be, like um, Christoph Waltz's character from Inglourious Basterds.
David 15:06
Mhhm.
Jordan 15:06
But the author is not good enough to pull that off. basically. So he's just, like, some random, creepy military dude who shows up at the beginning of the series, gets his ass kicked by Noah, and then shows up in, like, literally, like, the very end. Like when we have that- This random jump to, like, far in the future. Where it turns out, if the series had kept going, that dude would have been the final bad guy.
David 15:30
Yeah.
Jordan 15:30
Which is, like, an interesting choice. I don't know if it's a good choice. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not a good choice. But, uh, interesting decision.
David 15:40
Yeah. This is not unheard of, Jeremy, where manga will be like, "I'm just gonna, kind of, retrofit a character because we don't have the time to set up". Like Cop and Dolphin, like, pretty much drastically changed the purpose of one character, just because they needed it for plot reasons, even though it didn't really make sense.
Jordan 15:53
Tokyo Shinobi Squad.
David 15:54
Yeah.
Jordan 15:55
They get to, like, the last three chapters and, um, they still don't have a final conflict. So just out of nowhere, the main character's mentor who we've never met before just shows up he's like, "Hey, Jim-" We call him Jim Naruto.
David 16:08
Yeah.
Jordan 16:08
"Let's fight to prove that you're good!" And then he actually kicks his ass, and then um... That's the end of the series.
David 16:16
Yeah.
Jeremy 16:16
Alright.
David 16:17
God! Uh, speaking of mentors, Jordan, Eir White his mentor. Noah's master. So she is-
Jordan 16:23
Eir [Said like air] or Eir [Said like ire] or Eir [Said like ear]. I'm not sure.
David 16:26
We'll err on the side of caution and go with whatever pronounciation. So, she's a golem master and Noah's teacher, type of girl that's rough and tumbly, eats a ton. Those are all stereotypical Shonen traits.
Jordan 16:37
I like her though.
David 16:38
You gotta give props. This series treats women with more respect than the average manga we've covered on this series. But we'll talk about that in the positives.
Jordan 16:44
Not the highest bar. But hey, it clears it. You know? A lot of manga don't clear it.
David 16:48
Yeah. I feel like that's the problem with these characters is, like, there's no depth to any of these characters. So I totally understand y'all don't have anything to add after I just give the rundown.
Jeremy 16:57
Kinda just eats bread.
David 16:58
Yeah. Eh... Jeremy, do you mind telling us about Lily Bell?
Jeremy 17:01
Lily is the, I think, the least of a character of the en- You could cut this character.
Jordan 17:05
Yeah.
Jeremy 17:05
She shows up for the test-
David 17:07
But yet she has the most depth.
Jeremy 17:08
Yeah.
Jordan 17:08
She has a personality.
Jeremy 17:10
Yeah, yeah. So she- Is she like a cooking golem? What- What- Do we know which one she-?
David 17:15
No she does healing. That's w-
Jeremy 17:16
Healing, right. Right, right, right.
David 17:17
That's why you're like: For no plot reasons, she should be here, but we need to- We want to have a girl in the group. Despite not writing her to just pass the test.
Jordan 17:24
Yeah.
Jeremy 17:24
Okay.
Jordan 17:25
I did like the moment where they- They show them all standing there and it zooms in on Lily and Lily's just like, "Wait, why am I here?"
Jeremy 17:31
Yeah, I had the same thought.
David 17:33
I was wondering that fucking too, author.
Jordan 17:36
I thought her, uh, reaction face was funny enough where I didn't get mad about it. I was just like, "Alright. Okay." Yeah.
Jeremy 17:41
So her thing is that she's nervous. That's her big personality.
Jordan 17:44
Very big mood.
David 17:45
Yeah, she's got anxiety.
Jordan 17:47
She's got anxiety.
Jeremy 17:49
Constant!
Jordan 17:49
Yeah, she needs therapy. And I don't think they're given it to her.
Jeremy 17:52
No.
David 17:53
No.
Jeremy 17:53
There should be a therapy golem.
Jordan 17:54
There should be a therapy golem.
Jeremy 17:56
There's everything else. They have like tailor golem.
Yeah. "It's a living". That's what I imagine all the golem saying.
David 18:02
I'm surprised they didn't talk about golem sports?
Jeremy 18:04
Yeah.
Jordan 18:05
That would've been cool. Well, that would have implied that the author did something interesting with this premise. Which uh...
David 18:10
I know. Alright. Jordan, why don't you tells about Carles [Henceforth pronounced "Carl's."]
Jordan 18:13
First of all: Carles is very interesting name. He's just kind of a laid-back, chill guy, but, like, you get into a fight with him and, like- Man! Sometimes he just goes crazy. Just snaps, you know? He just gets, like, a little bit more- A little bit too violent. You know? He suddenly has too much of a good- Have, like, a good time inflicting violence, you know? But he's- But he's a nice guy. No. I- I don't know what the fuck was up with his character. He got, kind of, on my nerves by the end. I was just like, "Dude, I don't care if you're edgy. Alright?" Like, whatever. Yeah.
David 18:40
I mean, he's not even the edgiest character.
Jordan 18:42
He's not!
Jeremy 18:42
No.
David 18:42
Because there's the designated, token, edgy character: Erebus.
Jeremy 18:46
Yeah.
Jordan 18:46
He just kind of feels like an unnecessary character, Carles does; Because, like, the author felt like he needed Erebus and, uh, Lily because he's trying to create an exact recreation of the Naruto three-member squad, I guess.
David 19:01
Yeah.
Jeremy 19:02
Mmmmh.
Jordan 19:02
I don't know why Carles is there?
Jeremy 19:04
To be his friend. Cuz it gets- They- They gotta get the friendship lines out.
Jordan 19:08
Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
David 19:09
It's always good to have friends. You know?
Jeremy 19:11
You gotta have a bunch of lines about friendship. And if it's just the mean guy, then you can't really say that that much.
David 19:16
It's true.
Jordan 19:17
It's true that Erebus absolutely would not say that Noah is his friend, because he is a dick.
Jeremy 19:22
Yeah, yeah.
David 19:22
Yeah. Uh, alright. But is there anything more we want to say on Erebus?
Jeremy 19:25
I know this isn't, like, particularly praiseworthy, because it looks- Eh- He looks incredibly generic. But I did like the way they, like, made him the, like, the darker features in the other characters. Like, yeah. I liked his style a little more.
David 19:36
I can respect that.
Jeremy 19:37
It's not original. It is something.
David 19:40
That's Golem Hearts! It is something.
Jordan 19:42
Yeah. I liked how his golem did have that, like, dark motif. Where like-
Jeremy 19:47
Yeah.
Jordan 19:47
Patterns were very blocky to represent, like um, kind of a medieval knight style. I thought that that was a really clever design choice.
David 19:57
Mhhm.
Jordan 19:57
Other than that, uh, Erebus's just kind of a douchebag
David 19:59
Yeah he is. I like how his- His, um, thing is called Nyx. Which is a cool name for a golem.
Jordan 20:04
Yeah, yeah. Nyx.
Jeremy 20:05
Yeah, that's Jewish. Jews love the Knicks.
Jordan 20:08
That is true. They do.
Jeremy 20:10
That is a real thing.
David 20:12
Alright. Well, I think this character section is very fo- Reporting about the issues this series had. So why don't we go into "Why it Failed."? So on the topic of failure, I'll start things off. This series, like, it just doesn't do anything well. The art is mediocre.
Jordan 20:27
Yeah.
David 20:27
The writing is mediocre.
Jordan 20:28
Yeah.
David 20:28
The series is like- If this wasn't the second series, this probably would have been a strong contender for "Series We Most Forgot", except for the- The quality dad. Like damn! This series just fucking is, like, the most vanilla, vanilla shit I have ever, EVER read in my entire life.
Jordan 20:42
Yeah.
David 20:42
So that's the crazy thing is, he really wanted to not offend anyone. But then he made the series unnecessarily violent for no reason.
Jordan 20:49
David, we could say it. He made the series unnecessarily violent because Naruto is strangely violent in a lot of places. But Naruto has an art style that can handle that. Golem Hearts really does not.
David 21:01
This artist is just not that good at drawing.
Jordan 21:03
I think that this art style can work, but it has to be way more light-hearted. Which this artist should have done anyway, because the best parts of the series are when it's light-hearted. This guy sucks at villains.
David 21:14
Yeah. And that is a problem his current series has as well.
Jeremy 21:16
Ahh.
David 21:16
But Jeremy, how about you? Was there anything that really stood out to you?
Jeremy 21:19
I definitely don't know enough about the art styles of manga to, like-
David 21:23
Mhhm.
Jeremy 21:23
Compare it to anything else. But I did find it, like, visually confusing.
Jordan 21:26
Yes.
Jeremy 21:27
I don't feel like I g- I got through any fight scenes, really knowing what happened.
David 21:31
Yeah. I do feel that some of your issues with the series, like- You're like, "Oh, it's because I'm new to this." I'll be straight wit you, this series has very bad paneling and structure.
Jeremy 21:38
Like, yeah.
David 21:39
It is not you being inexperienced.
Jordan 21:41
There were multiple times in the series where I was like, "Wait, what happened in the last panel? What am I looking at?"
David 21:46
And the fact that this author has fucking, terrible proportions doesn't help-
Jeremy 21:49
Yeah.
David 21:49
The fact that his paneling is also bad.
Jeremy 21:51
And then story-wise, it also was just confusing. Like, they don't tell you anything. Like you guys were saying like, "Oh, it's you know, like, the Flintstones", but, like, they don't tell you that. Like it's, like-
David 21:59
No.
Jordan 21:59
No.
Jeremy 21:59
You're just kind of thrown in. They're, like, "You'll figure it out. It has golems. You know what a golem is,"
Jordan 22:04
"You know what a golem is." Yeah, right? Thanks to Jewish folklore.
David 22:08
Japanese people knew a ton about Judaism, right?
Jeremy 22:10
Yeah. And don't worry, it's not really that similar to that.
Jordan 22:13
That is true. It's really not at all, actually.
David 22:16
It uses the names and then it doesn't do anything with, like- This could be one of two manga we've ever talked about that was strangely Jewish based. The other one was a manga that's about the metaphor for the founding of Israel. Jordan can confirm.
Jordan 22:28
It was really weird.
David 22:30
That's the series Red Sprite. Very strange. But yeah.
Jordan 22:33
Yeah.
David 22:33
This series, like- I think we're struggling to talk about, because it's like- It's kind of like my brain is like Teflon: Everything about the series just slides off. This author was clearly afraid to do anything new and interesting, because he wanted to play it safe. His latest series, that we talked about, is even more generic than this series, because he doesn't even have like an interesting, like, backdrop. It's just pure genericness. And to be honest, I kind of think, maybe this author shouldn't be making manga, cuz he did not have five years of improvement between this and this current series.
Jordan 22:33
Fucking brutal!
David 22:33
You know, I'm fucking devastating this man! But it is true. That is n- He did not experience five years of experience between making this and making Doron Dororon.
Jeremy 22:56
Well, that's because he didn't actually spend the five years: He just wrote five years later, and then expected-
David 23:04
Yeah!
Jeremy 23:04
That there would be some sort of training montage between that.
Jordan 23:17
Yeah. We- we just, uh, assume you know? Like, uh, yo- Look, man. It- It's been five years. You just- You assume at this point, right?
David 23:25
Yeah.
Jordan 23:25
I guess that's what Shonen Jump did. They were like, "Oh, it's been five years. What? He's not gonna be at the same level, he was before, right? He's gon- He's gotta be better."
David 23:32
Yeah. God! One thing I wrote that I think expresses, the kind of, the vibe of this series: This feels like the 4Kids dub of a better series. Like, all the edges are roughed off; The violence is polished away; The character-interesting traits are all removed. It's just dumbed down.
Oh and the violence is not polished away. It's just not polished in at all. It's just kind of there, and really awkward to look at.
Yeah. It's almost like they tried to remove it, but they couldn't. So they did as best they can, and so the series tonally doesn't make any sense.
Jordan 23:52
Yeah.
Jeremy 23:52
Yeah. As someone who doesn't watch a lot of anime and doesn't read manga: If you were to ask me to, like, come up with an idea of, like, what I don't like about this genre, like, this is what it would be. Just, like-
David 24:07
Yeah.
Jeremy 24:07
Really cheesy, corny jokes about, like, a guy who cares a lot about friendship.
David 24:11
Yeah.
Jordan 24:12
You probably have some experience with JRPGs, right though?
Jeremy 24:16
Mhhm, mhhm.
Jordan 24:16
There you go. Same thing. There you go! You- you know anime.
Jeremy 24:20
It's like the stereotype of, like, what I don't like about this stuff.
Jordan 24:24
The series does feel like it's missing, like um, some kind of merchandise tie-in.
David 24:30
Yeah. It was definitely made for that.
Jordan 24:32
Yeah. But they never actually got to the point where they introduced, uh, the interesting things you could buy.
Jeremy 24:37
Can I ask you guys, how does this work? So, like, does someone hire this writer to, like, make a specific run? Like, why does it end so quickly? Like did they run out of budget.?
David 24:46
So the way it works is usually an author has eight chapters to kind of get started, and then they start evaluating the performance of the series.
Jeremy 24:53
Mhhm.
David 24:54
And knowing how well a series is doing is kind of like nerd astrology, where people have different theories about how to tell how well a series is doing. So, like, for instance, some popular ones are: They do polling results, but they're not openly available, but you can kind of guesstimate just by doing, like, talking to people. And then there's stuff like sales data, and then also placement in the magazine, and series near the end of the magazine tend to be canceled. But people are kind of- They fight about if that's accurate or not.
Jordan 25:17
Yeah.
David 25:17
So essentially after eight chapters, the author kind of sees how well they're doing, and then they get cancelled, and then they get three chapters to resolve things.
Jeremy 25:24
Gotcha.
David 25:25
So often, like, in these manga, like Jordan said, like: A guy came out of nowhere at the end of Tokyo Shinobi Squad, three chapters before it ended, so the series had some way of resolving. So this guy knew around Chapter 11, like, in the middle of the Riddle Golem, where he was like, "I need to wrap this up and finish the series." So that's why Chapter 13 and 14 are very much, like, "Let me show you some ideas I had, even though the series is about to die".
Jordan 25:43
Yeah.
David 25:43
And then they just get canc- It's got- Like a TV show, you know?
Jeremy 25:44
Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah.
David 25:44
They just get cancelled and that's it. They just don't make it anymore.
Jeremy 25:48
Gotcha.
Jordan 25:49
Every, uh, manga author is really just- They're just trying to make it you know?
David 25:53
Yeah.
Jordan 25:53
They're trying to put their stuff out there and prove their worth to the world. And then they prove that they actually don't have that much worth to the world it turns out.
David 26:00
Yeah.
Jeremy 26:00
Yeah.
David 26:01
I will say, by the way, 14 chapters is, like, near the almost bare minimum runtime.
Jeremy 26:06
Sure.
David 26:06
So this series got canceled about as quickly as it could
Jordan 26:08
Yeah. And maybe it's because, we mentioned, the villains suck.
David 26:11
Yeah.
Jeremy 26:12
Yeah. Has no ideas.
Jordan 26:13
Oh my God! This series was killed so hard by it's exam arc.
Jeremy 26:16
Yeah.
Jordan 26:17
I feel like the series was starting to go in an interesting direction, before they jumped to Noah being a teenager. You know?
Jeremy 26:25
Yeah.
Jordan 26:25
When he was a kid, and it was just like, "Oh, this weird little golem abomination is, um, is learning quote-unquote "golem arts" from a quote-unquote "golem arts specialist" or- Er.. Like expert or something. And that would have been more interesting, if for no other reason than maybe we would understand what the fuck "golem arts" is.
David 26:44
Yeah.
Jordan 26:44
If they didn't jump forward.
Jeremy 26:46
Yeah.
Jordan 26:46
Because I have no clue what the fuck they are and why I should even care
Jeremy 26:49
It's based on the-
David 26:50
Yes.
Jeremy 26:50
The- The density of stars.
David 26:52
Of course!
Jordan 26:53
Mmmh. Yes.
David 26:54
Speaking of jump forward, you all mind if we go to "What It Did Well"?
Jeremy 26:57
Sure.
Jordan 26:57
Yeah.
Jeremy 26:58
I don't think this one will be too long.
David 26:59
Yeah. So- Well said Jeremy! So, do you mind kicking things off and telling us, though, what were your positive points about this series?
Jeremy 27:06
Okay. Number one: This was, uh, not horny at all. I thought this was gonna be-
Jordan 27:11
Yes!
Jeremy 27:11
Very horny.
David 27:12
No, sir.
Jeremy 27:13
No horniness!
Jordan 27:14
Jeremy, you don't understand how refreshing this was. We just got off of reading... Oh, that was a bad way to say that.
Jeremy 27:21
[Laugh break]
Jordan 27:21
We re- Just finished reading like two back-to-back, um, pedophile mangas.
David 27:28
Yes.
Jeremy 27:29
Yeah. It's- It's a bummer. It's a huge bummer.
Jordan 27:31
It sucks. It's- Really fucking sucks! So when I read- When I started reading the one-shot, and in the one-shot the bad guy is an adult who creeps on children-
Jeremy 27:42
Sure.
Jordan 27:42
Oh my God! The bad guy is a pedophile.
Jeremy 27:45
At least it's the bad guy.
Jordan 27:47
Thank God! A manga tha- That acknowledges it's bad to go after 16-year-olds. We read a manga that sexualed 12-year-olds man. It sucked.
Jeremy 27:47
Wow.
David 27:47
Yeah. It was so bad, our guest was like, "I don't feel okay finishing this." And we're like, "That's fine."
Jordan 28:01
They were right! Jesus, it sucked
Jeremy 28:04
As far as the order goes: You want nobody to be a pedophile, and then under that is the bad guy.
Jordan 28:09
Yeah.
Jeremy 28:09
And then under that is the good guy. And then, the final worst one is, uh, when the audience is the pedophile. And it's like, "You like this baby."
David 28:09
Oh, when the author is the pedophile.
Jeremy 28:14
Yeah, yeah.
Jordan 28:17
Oh yeah!
David 28:18
Also, for the record Jordan: It was not back-to-back, because we read Hungry Marie in-between. So you're welcome.
Jordan 28:22
You're right. Hungry Marie [Transcriber note: Jordan mixes up pronounciation of Marie with Mary] was the savior of that moment. But we did, then, have to finish reading it.
David 28:30
Oh, poor Jordan.
Jordan 28:31
But that was definitely a good thing of this series. Definitely-
Jeremy 28:34
Yeah.
Jordan 28:34
Not creepy like that.
David 28:35
Yeah.
Jeremy 28:36
Like 0%.
Jordan 28:36
[Sounds of disgust]
Jeremy 28:37
Like fully not creepy.
David 28:38
I mean, this series is wholesome. That's why all the violence doesn't make any sense because this should have been like a PG-rated series.
Jordan 28:44
Yeah. It's very strange.
David 28:46
His dad is just, like, probably one of the nicest dads you'll ever meet in manga. And it was just- That was just a nice character to read about.
Jordan 28:53
I think-
Jeremy 28:54
Yeah.
Jordan 28:54
That this guy is just in the wrong genre. I don't think that he should be making action manga at all.
David 29:00
Yeah.
Jordan 29:00
He should be doing, like, kind of slice of life, like, manga. Like I'm not sa- I don't think this guy could pull off High School Family, but he should be shooting for a manga with, like, the tone of High School Family.
David 29:11
Oh yeah. So Jeremy, for reference, High School Family is one of our favorite series. It's about a teenager who goes to high school with his entire family. So his dad, his mom, his- What is it? Nine-year-old sister, and-
Jordan 29:11
Yeah.
David 29:11
Their cat all enroll in high school with him.
Jeremy 29:12
That's cute.
Jordan 29:12
Its very good.
David 29:13
Its just ridiculous. One of my favorite jokes is they have like a graph showing everyone's grades, and the cat's is a fish.
Jeremy 29:33
That sounds very nice.
David 29:34
I have one last positive. But does anyone have anything else before, or?
Jordan 29:38
It's hard to come up with stuff to say about the series. Like, legit, after the, uh- The final, like, battle starts, I feel like you can just stop reading it.
Jeremy 29:40
Yeah, honestly.
Jordan 29:44
I'm not even talking about the final, final battle. I'm talking about the battle against the riddle- The riddle golem. I just kind of-
David 29:53
Yeah.
Jordan 29:53
Felt like nothing happened at all. [Sighs] I talked about negatives in the positives section-
David 29:58
Yeah Jordan stop!
Jordan 29:58
Which should give you a good idea about how this this series is.
David 30:00
Yeah.
Jeremy 30:01
Yeah.
David 30:01
I've got one last positive. I want to give this series a thousand points out of 10-million, but still, for not killing Lamech-
Jordan 30:08
Yes!
David 30:09
In the first chapter.
Jeremy 30:10
Yeah!
David 30:10
I bet you the editor said, "Do not kill him" and he 100% wanted him to die in that first chapter.
Jordan 30:15
He wanted to kill him. Yes, absolutely!
David 30:19
Alright. That's about it. Should we go into "Where It Could Have Gone"? It sounds like y'all have some ideas how to fix this series.
Jordan 30:24
Yeah.
David 30:24
So, I will pick up this section. Yeah. I think the big thing is this series needed to actually explain it's lore. And, I think, maybe do more with the Judaism thing? Like- I- I, like, want to be like- It could have been cool to be deep cuts. I know that causes issues so people don't know what you're talking about. But does that, like, really matter? Like, who gives a shit? It'd just be like a fun wink to, like, Jewish people reading this manga.
Jordan 30:41
David: In order to do that, you have to first build up a knowledge of Judaism and Jewishness. And the author didn't do that.
David 30:49
Yeah.
Jeremy 30:50
Yeah. I mean, there's something interesting in that.
Jordan 30:52
The author heard that the Pokemon Golem, uh, comes from Judaism, so he was like, "There you go! I did it."
David 30:59
Yeah.
Jordan 31:00
I will say, there were a couple moments the author clearly meant to try and take this into some kind of angle about discrimination and prejudice.
Jeremy 31:09
Oh, my God!
David 31:10
Mhhm.
Jeremy 31:10
That was a little tedious, though. It was a little strange.
Jordan 31:12
It was tedious and strange, and it felt like it was getting into the the whole X-Men issue. Where, like, the whole series is just like, um, "Oh, look at these evil racists, who hate these mutants just for being mutants." Problem is, uh, the metaphor doesn't work. Because in real life, minorities and oppressed people usually cannot fire laser beams out of their eyes [Laughter] and destroy people's minds.
Jeremy 31:38
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David 31:38
Yeah, that's what we tell them.
Jordan 31:39
The fear is a little bit- A little more justified in the metaphor world. And that's the same thing here. Because after they say that, we meet an evil golem that Noah could turn into. And if you- If you have that metaphor, it kind of feels like you're saying, "Oh, well, you know. There is some kind of reason to feel afraid."
David 31:58
Yeah.
Jeremy 31:59
Yeah, yeah.
Jordan 32:00
I mean, look how e- Powerful these Jews are, you know? I mean, we gotta-
David 32:04
Oh... Okay.
Jordan 32:05
Step in. you know?
David 32:06
Oh, jeez... So Jeremy, what about you? What would you say you would have tweaked about this series? Or where it coulda gone?
Jeremy 32:12
It's hard to really, um, suggest ideas for it that don't sound like a completely different thing, because, like, this-
Jordan 32:17
That's totally fine.
Jeremy 32:18
The lore of this have nothing in it.
Jordan 32:18
Yup.
Jeremy 32:18
You know what I mean?
David 32:18
Yeah.
Jeremy 32:18
They don't ex- Don't ever explain what any of this shit is.
Jordan 32:18
No.
Jeremy 32:19
I think, if I were to make a golem manga, I would start from scratch; And I would have it be different villages or cities, that each have created their own protective golem. And um-
Jordan 32:28
Ooooh!
Jeremy 32:36
They're somehow, like, at war with each other.
Jordan 32:39
G Gundam!
Jeremy 32:39
Yeah. Yeah, exactly! Its gol- It's Jewish Gundam.
Jordan 32:42
Yes!
David 32:43
That's what the "G" stands for.
Jeremy 32:44
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jordan 32:45
G Golem!
David 32:47
Oh, that's good.
Jeremy 32:48
They're not piloted by people. They're made of, you know, fucking clay or whatever. And they, uh, punch each other.
Jordan 32:54
The "G" stands for gefilte.
Jeremy 32:56
Yes, yes. So that's what I would write.
David 32:58
That sounds good. I had two different ideas: One is like, what if Noah is, uh, competent, and he's trying to make his dad famous. So he keeps, like, kind of saving his dad's ass in situations. It's like in Case Closed, where there's, like, a shitty detective and the main character who is a child, but he has to have the adult take all the credit.
Jordan 33:13
Or Inspector Gadget.
David 33:14
Yeah. And then the other idea is, what if Noah wants to be in the military, but he's only good at making nonviolent golems. And he has to figure out how to apply, like, a tailor gulemn- Golem- Tailor Gundam- Into, like, combat situation. So imagine, like, the tailor golem just like ties, like, people's, like, clothes to the floor and stuff. Or I- I- Something stupid like that. So those are two different ideas, and after I say: I think the first idea's a lot stronger than the second one. So that's my spiel of how I would have redone this series.
Jordan 33:41
Uh... But David, that also brings up a point. Which is I wanted weirder powers.
David 33:45
Yeah.
Jordan 33:46
Yeah, they're pretty boring.
It's just typical, "Oh! He's got, uh, really strong fists, and like- He can punch real, real good. And then this guy- He's got, like, multiple arms. So he can punch, like, multiple times." It just felt like they were gonna go into a much more logical kind of way. Like I mentioned in the plot summary, that it seemed like Eir was giving Noah a coding challenge.
David 34:08
[Chuckles] Yeah.
Jordan 34:10
And I would have le- Liked to have seen more logic-based powers. I mean, the problem with that, though, is then you have to sit down and come up with interesting logic-
Jeremy 34:19
Right.
Jordan 34:19
Based puzzles.
Jeremy 34:20
You have to be a good writer.
Jordan 34:21
That's the issue! You have to be a good writer.
Jeremy 34:24
You have to have some sort of idea that you want to execute over "x" number of chapters, which this doesn't have.
Jordan 34:30
Maybe-
David 34:31
Yeah.
Jordan 34:31
Some themes or some motifs perhaps? Which reminds me: One of the big issues is that, like, the one-shot- I mentioned that it was better than the main series. And part of that is because, while the main series is ripping off Naruto, the one-shot seems to be ripping off Fullmetal Alchemist? And oh my God, it is a way better fit! It is such a better fit for this series than Naruto is, because the golem arts are, basically, just like a rip off of alchemy anyway.
David 34:58
Yeah.
Jordan 34:58
And Noah just fits way more in there, because it's just, like, "What if Ed was, like, just kind of a really wholesome, adorable guy instead of the character that he is" It wound up feeling a lot more like its own kind of unique series.
David 35:14
Yeah. Oh, one last idea I had: Imagine if he like- That whole, like, tonal mismatch was on purpose. So imagine these are, like, PG-rated characters that end up in like an-R rated world, where they have, like, no plot armor, or, like, convenience, and they have to just try and actually survive in, like, a world that actually wants to kill them.
Jeremy 35:29
That's kind of fun.
Jordan 35:30
Yeah.
Jeremy 35:31
The premise for the manga is that it's like Naruto in Doom. And then you just see, like-
Jordan 35:35
Yeah.
Jeremy 35:36
Where they're like, "We have to be fri-!" And they're, like, stabbed through the face. And they're like, "How do we deal with this?"
David 35:40
Someone's just like, "[Transcriber Note- Not a clue what is being said here]." And then- You just- Someone's head just gets blown off.
Jeremy 35:45
Yeah.
David 35:45
And it's like the bottom jaw and the blood's coming out.
Jordan 35:47
Multi-kill!
Jeremy 35:49
I'd rate that.
David 35:50
Alright. We'll pitch that.
Jordan 35:51
I think that that would have been good, if the tonal mismatch was on purpose, and do something interesting with that.
Jeremy 35:56
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jordan 35:57
Since it was not on purpose, you can't.
David 35:59
Yeah. Alright. But, shall we go on to "Miscellaneous Thoughts"?
Jordan 36:03
Let's do it.
David 36:04
Alright. Jeremy, though. I know-
Jeremy 36:05
Okay.
David 36:05
We are nearing the end, but do you mind telling us what are some, like, little thoughts that didn't quite fit into the rest of the recording so far.
Jeremy 36:11
I think it's interesting that the Federation's power levels are really dumb. Like, they're like, "This is the eighth-most powerful wizard in the world! And he's dead."
Jordan 36:19
So good! Yeah.
Jeremy 36:20
Just immediately, they all die.
David 36:21
Yeah. A lot of professionals died during this series.
Jeremy 36:24
Do you notice that the Federation seems to exist in a, like, atomic bomb, mushroom cloud shaped building? Because that- Was that on purpose? I don't know why.
David 36:32
I didn't even notice that.
Jeremy 36:33
Just what it looked like to me. I don't know, maybe people disagree. Maybe I'm reading too far into it? I'm trying to see if I could find one.
Jordan 36:38
You might be, you might not be. Maybe it's sup- Maybe it's supposed to represent, uh, America?
Jeremy 36:43
Maybe.
Jordan 36:43
I don't know. I don't know. Well, why're you asking me? It's not like I host a manga podcast where we talk about manga and [Jordan trails off of the bit]. David, what are you saying?
David 36:51
I mean, the whole implication of this series is that they're, kind of, Blackwater soldiers that are just fighting in an endless, like, war, that clearly is just a manifest of the industrial complex.
Jeremy 37:00
Yeah. And some of them do cooking!
David 37:01
Yeah, that's true.
Jordan 37:02
And there- There's some medics. There you go! What a- What an interesting world we have.
Jeremy 37:07
Yeah.
David 37:07
Oh, uh- Speaking of- By the way, the ranking and shit; Did you notice that having less stars means you're higher rank, which goes against pretty much every ranking system ever established?
Jeremy 37:15
Yes. Because it's based on the- The- The de- The density of stars, right? That's what they said?
David 37:19
Yes.
Jordan 37:19
You gotta be dense.
David 37:21
Yes. Dense like Jordan.
Jeremy 37:22
Very strange.
Jordan 37:23
Exactly. I am the number-three ranked golem artist in the world. I wish they called them golem artists.
Jeremy 37:32
That'd be fine.
David 37:33
Yeah, that'd makes sense.
Jordan 37:34
Golem Farts!
David 37:35
Golem Far- I- We definitely- No, we said Double Farts when we read Double Arts.
Jeremy 37:40
There's a big translation issue. They have a lot of typos. They're missing words. Things are-
Jordan 37:44
Yeah.
Jeremy 37:44
Written out wrong.
David 37:45
Yeah. Eh... You know, it's- It was a fan translation, cuz no one's gonna pay to translate this.
Jeremy 37:49
Oh, interesting. Is that true?
David 37:49
Yeah.
Jeremy 37:50
Cool. I like that more then.
Jordan 37:51
Yeah.
David 37:52
If you ever wanna read manga: So Viz tra- Has a lot of officially translated stuff, professionally. Like we've actually had a professional translator on the show, for a series he covered.
Jeremy 37:59
Very cool.
David 37:59
So yeah. Uh, it's two bucks a month. So you can read it. Actually I think it's free now, to read every chapter once. So it's actually really nice to just read manga on the train. That's how- When I do mine.
Jordan 38:07
Hey Viz, sponsor us!
David 38:09
Yes, sponsor us Viz!
Jordan 38:10
Sponsor us Viz!
David 38:11
Cover our $2 a month manga subscription.
Jordan 38:14
Yeah!
David 38:14
Oh. So another miscellaneous thought I had is: I think one of the more clever things this series did was- Did you see when Eir was talking about being hungry? The- The p- Or the bread- Her panel was shaped like a bread lo- Loaf of bread.
Jeremy 38:25
That's fun.
Jordan 38:26
It was! It was fun. I liked how Noah's whole thing is that he's a golem, and all he knows is his dad. And so his dad is really bad at making bread. So that's his idea of what good bread is. It's like burned, blackend bread.
David 38:42
I mean, he's not human. So you can't really fault him.
Jordan 38:44
Exactly! Yeah, yeah.
David 38:46
And then, my last one is Nyx definitely looks like a Jojo's Stand, and it probably would have been called Styx.
Jeremy 38:53
Yeah.
David 38:53
Okay. That's it for me.
Jeremy 38:54
I have one more. Just reading was interesting, because years ago, I wrote a pilot for a, like, Pokemon inspired comedy show. Where the idea was that it was, like, "What if Pokemon was, like, a comedy written for adults" And I say- Like my own version of Pokemon, and I animated it. Before I even wrote the pilot, I animated, like, two little, shitty cartoons for it, years ago. And in that, because I was trying to come up with my own version of Pokemon, I named them Golemon, with, like, the idea that they were, like, sort of my version of Pokemon. They're golem. So it's fun to see someone do a similar id- Honestly pretty similar idea, but, uh, really bad.
Jordan 39:28
Yeah. It's like, uh, they just made your parody
Jeremy 39:31
Yeah, kind of. Kind of.
David 39:32
I just imagine Jeremy, during this recording, just deleted that script off of his hard drive.
Jordan 39:36
Like, "God dammit! He stole-"
Jeremy 39:37
You can find it online baby! Go watch it on YouTube.
David 39:42
Oh, God.
Jordan 39:42
"That was gonna be my cash cow!"
Jeremy 39:44
It's about a young boy named Noah, who loves his dad.
David 39:46
Awww. That's really cute. Maybe I'll name my kid Noah.
Jordan 39:50
Oh, man.
David 39:51
But anyway, let's go to "The Final Verdict", where we can say what doesn't suck, when we give some recommendations. So, y'all ready to move?
Jordan 39:51
Mhhm.
David 39:53
We're gonna kick things off with some "Six-Word Summaries." Tucker was unfortunately under the weather so we don't have one, but I'm looking forward to his for the next series. So we've got three this week. From Xylon we have, "At least it's not Doron Dororon" That's the series I've been shi- The other series I've been shitiing at, so good call Xylon.
Jordan 40:10
Or di- It's also not Doran Dororon
David 40:13
Yeah. Next up we have ZZDigital, "What if clay could have feelings?" Coming to you soon from Pixar.
Jordan 40:18
Brutal.
David 40:18
And T Wolfwood, "Worse Black Clover with cool dad".
Jordan 40:22
Nice.
David 40:23
Those are solid. So Jeremy: How about you? What is your six year summary?
Jeremy 40:25
"Eh... Cut to four years later".
David 40:27
I love it. How 'bout you Jordan
Jordan 40:28
"Good dad, good son, bad plot"
David 40:31
I like it. So I had two so I'm curious. So my first one is "Let's leave hearts to the Planeteers"
Jeremy 40:35
Mmmmh.
David 40:35
And my second one is "4kids dub of a better series."
Jeremy 40:38
It's true.
Jordan 40:38
Yeah.
David 40:39
Yeah. I feel like the first one was stronger now that I say them both. It's a recurring theme in my life right now, I guess.
Jordan 40:43
Hey, ya know? That's okay. That's okay. First idea, best idea. That's how it works.
David 40:46
I just knew we had a writer on the show so I really wanted to bring my A-game.
Jordan 40:50
You gotta bring, like, some heaters in here. You don't want to throw-
David 40:53
I know right.
Jordan 40:53
Out some random bullshit you came up with five seconds- Like, uh, "Good dad, good son, bad plot" or something.
Jeremy 40:58
It gets to the Golem Hearts of it.
Jordan 41:01
The Golem Hearts of it.
Jeremy 41:02
Oooo!
Jordan 41:02
Yeah!
David 41:02
"The Golem Hearts of it." Hey oooh, ohh. Bazinga!
Jeremy 41:05
By the way, I found the mushroom cloud building. I posted it in Discord, if you want to see.
David 41:10
Oh yes! I appreciate it. So Jeremy has posted it in the Patreon chat. So, if you pay us money you can see that picture. [Laughter]
Jeremy 41:17
It's true.
David 41:18
Jeremy, I love the branding. Good i- Great idea!
Jordan 41:20
Good.
Jeremy 41:20
You're welcome.
Jordan 41:20
Yes, yes.
David 41:21
Jeremy though: So the way that things work here is we have three tiers. We have "Not A Flop", a "Flop" and a "Certified Flop". A "Certified Flop" being, "Man, I really hate myself for having read this." So how does this fall on the flop spectrum?
Jeremy 41:34
I would say this is A- "A Certified Flop" for me.
David 41:37
Oof.
Jeremy 41:37
It's 100% of every manga I've ever read, and [Chuckles from Jordan and David] I don't think I'd recommend it to my friends.
Jordan 41:43
Not even a series, just manga. You wouldn't recommend manga to your friends.
Jeremy 41:47
Do you see black and white drawings? Run.
David 41:50
It's like Miyazaki where he said, "Anime was a mistake."
Jeremy 41:52
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Jordan 41:53
Yeah. He definitely did say that. Yes.
Jeremy 41:55
Yes.
David 41:56
I think he actually did say that. It's just taken out- Super out of context. So Jeremy then, since you thought this was a flop, what should someone check out instead?
Jeremy 42:02
So speaking of Miyazaki, the manga I've always wanted to read but I've never gotten around to is: I've always wanted to check out the Nausicaä [of the] Valley of the Wind manga.
Jordan 42:10
Mmmh.
David 42:10
Mmmh.
Jeremy 42:11
So I think people should read that, and then tweet at me if it's good or not.
David 42:15
Okay. [David and Jordan laugh] I love it. How 'bout you Jordan: Is this a flop or not?
Jordan 42:19
Yeah, this is definitely a "Flop". It's hard for me to call it a "Certified Flop", because my God! Some of the shit we have read recently has been so fucking dire that-
David 42:29
Yeah.
Jordan 42:29
Like it makes this series seem a lot better. Like in terms of quality: Yeah, I would say that it is a "Certified Flop" but I can't hate it.
David 42:37
Yeah.
Jordan 42:37
I read that and I'm like, "Well that was dumb, but it was also kind of harmless and-
Yeah.
Sure.
There is some cute stuff. Whatever"
Jeremy 42:43
You don't feel dirty.
David 42:44
I didn't need a shower like after we read School Judgment-
Jordan 42:47
[Groan of disgust]
David 42:47
Or Build King.
Jeremy 42:47
That's fair. That's fair.
Jordan 42:49
Oh my fucking... Ugh!
David 42:49
Yeah. Jeremy if you want to read something bad that's- Actually, no.
Jordan 42:51
I certainly don't!
David 42:52
That series is by a pedophile. Um.... Jordan what's something really bad, not by a pedophile?
Jordan 42:57
Tokyo Shinobi Squad.
David 42:59
Yeah. Tokyo Shinobi Squad! There you go. We'll check our list and see what's been translated on the Viz site, uh, professionally. But yeah. I am with you all. This series is just not good. I think I'm with you, Jordan. This is a not- This is a normal "Flop". I think our rank of, like, near the bottom of D-Tier is correct. It's just- There's nothing it does atrociously, it just, literally, does nothing good. This is a 5 out of 10.
Jordan 43:21
I think it does some things pretty atrociously, but not in a way that, like, made me absolutely hate myself and- And, like, you can't follow, it but it isn't, like, completely spaghetti, like, fucking- Oh my God!
David 43:32
Bokke-san?
Jordan 43:33
Philosophy School or Bokke-san.
David 43:35
Yeah.
Jordan 43:35
Yeah. Just- Where it's just you read it and you're just like, "What is happening at any point right now?" You know where you are in the physical setting.
Jeremy 43:43
They just let anybody write these things?
Jordan 43:44
They do!
David 43:45
In Bokke-san, I misread the order of three chapters, and I read it in the proper order, and I was just as confused.
Jeremy 43:51
I'd be curious: With at least this one, I'd wonder- I wonder if the writer, like, has some sort of internal lore that he knows. Or if- I wonder if he's just like, "Fuck it."
David 44:00
A lot of manga writers, literally, go like- Dragon Ball Z: Literally Toriyama's like "Let's find out what happens this week! Because I don't know either."
Jeremy 44:06
Alright, fair enough.
David 44:07
So for context, he made each of these chapters in about seven days.
Jeremy 44:11
Sure.
David 44:11
That's like the timeline. Like, this is not great, but to get this done in seven days is extremely impressive.
Jeremy 44:16
Alright, well good for him.
David 44:17
Yeah. Oh! Oh sorry, Jordan, I forgot to ask. So what should double check out instead of this series?
Jordan 44:21
I think that you guys should check out the, uh- The Jewish klezmer band Golem.
Jeremy 44:26
Hmm.
Jordan 44:27
There you go.
David 44:28
I like it.
Jordan 44:29
They got some cool albums. Uh... They got like a cute, little drawing of a golem as their logo and I really liked that guy. And yeah. It's, uh- They're a bunch of really talented musicians and it's fun.
David 44:40
Just like you.
Jordan 44:40
Thank you. Means so much to me.
David 44:42
Aww.
Jordan 44:42
Awww.
David 44:43
Love you, buddy.
Jordan 44:44
Thank you. Thank you. What did you think about it David? You got any, uh... You have any recommendations?
David 44:48
So, I actually was going to, originally, recommend Takopi's Original Sin. Which is, like, this really happy alien that's goal is to bring joy to people and he meets, like, a daughter who's just like abused by her parents. And it's like- Gets really fucked up. So literally, if you want to be like, "Oh, let's see some Disney characters in a fucked up situation", that's, like, kind of that vibe.
Jeremy 45:06
Cool.
David 45:07
And it's only 16 chapters that, uh- You actually can read that whole thing professionally translated online, if that catches your interest Jeremy. I can send you a link to that, after this.
Jeremy 45:14
Sounds cool.
David 45:14
But the series I think is probably the best thing to read instead is, Jordan, Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer. Which is literally about people fighting golems, and that is probably one of the best written series I've ever read Jeremy. It's one of, like, two manga that's made me cry.
Jeremy 45:25
Wow!
David 45:26
It has perhaps the best, like, first three pages of any manga ever.
Jordan 45:30
The opening sentence-
Jeremy 45:31
That's a good sell. Just three pages.
Jordan 45:33
It's really good.
Jeremy 45:34
Yeah. I feel like whenever people recommend stuff they're like, "You gotta check out One Piece. It will take you 10 years."
Jordan 45:39
Yes, yes. I had to catch up on One Piece this year for a podcast and that was a very difficult experience. Wow! That was a lot of chapters. But David, you'd mention all the time that Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer made you cry. What was the other series that made you cry? Was it Gurren Lagaan?
David 45:59
Build King.
Jordan 45:59
Oh. Yes. We all cry about Build King.
David 46:01
Yes! So Jordan, though, I guess this stays in the middle. I don't think we need to change our ranking of low D-tier. I feel good about that.
Jordan 46:07
No. When I read the one-shot, I was like, "Hey, this is like- This is like a high C-tier. This is a lot better than I remember it!" And then I got to the main series, I was like-
David 46:17
"No. Now I remember why we didn't like it so much"
Jordan 46:18
"No. Nope. This is Golem Hearts. Right. I remember why, yeah"
David 46:20
Alright. But we've talked about enough crap. Why don't we get into some- I was trying to think of, like, a positive word starts with the letter "C".
Jordan 46:27
Cookie!
David 46:27
Things that are crepe. Uh... As we get into- I don't even know what that means. Some crepe expectations!
Jordan 46:33
Some crepe!
David 46:33
That's the name of my bookstore, that's also a bakery, "The Crepe Expectations." Alright! Let's go to shout-outs. Jeremy, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
Jeremy 46:41
Thanks for having me.
David 46:42
I know you didn't have the best manga experience but hopefully you at least had a good recording experience. Do you mind telling everyone the awesome things that they can check out? Especially instead of reading Golem Hearts.
Jeremy 46:52
I have a podcast called "Deep Dive in the Shallow End" that you can listen to, and it's on the podcast apps that you already have. And then, uh- I always feel wierd recommending, when people say, like, "How to find a podcast?" like everyone knows how to do that.
Jordan 47:04
Yeah.
Jeremy 47:04
And then because you were talking about it earlier, I will give you guys a scoop.
Jordan 47:08
[Gasp of excitement]
David 47:08
Oooo!
Jeremy 47:09
On July 15th- I'm pretty sure it's July 15th so if- I don't know. Follow me online to be sure. But I'm going to be hosting a live show in New York with Ballin' Out Super's Alex Ptak.
David 47:17
What!?
Jordan 47:18
Oh! Oh my God!
Jeremy 47:20
In, uh, Manhattan. So if you like, uh, that stuff-
David 47:23
Wait, no joke. I will like- I live in Manhattan. I will come to that.
Jeremy 47:26
Hell yeah, dude!
Jordan 47:26
Hell yeah!
David 47:27
If you can send me a link to it. How much are tickets?
Jeremy 47:30
It's so early, it's not confirmed. So I will-
David 47:32
Ok.
Jeremy 47:32
Send it to you. But it'll- It'll be a caveat. Probably next couple months? [Transcriber Note: I think this is what he said. Not sure when you guys recorded]
Jordan 47:47
So cut this part out of the episode unless, uh- So- Unless you tell us that it is, uh, confirmed.
Jeremy 47:50
It's, like, pretty confirmed It's like-
Jordan 47:50
Okay, cool.
Jeremy 47:51
Unless I fuck up something. It will, uh- It will happen.
Jordan 47:52
As long as you let us know before we put out the episode just be like, "Hey guys, I actually got cancelled and Alex refuses to talk to me.-
Yeah.
Ever again. So please cut that out."
David 47:56
After he made the best tweet of all time about gender reveal parties, you just got too big.
Jeremy 48:01
Yeah, exactly. Alex no longer wants to work with me. He, uh,- Lorne hired him for that tweet. He's now on SNL. And I'm doing it by myself.
Jordan 48:11
Oh, finally Lorne! Called him up to the big-times.
Jeremy 48:16
Yeah. Once Lorne read Ptak's pilot script, "Pedophile High School", he was like, "Get this guy!"
David 48:21
Oh G- I remember "Pedophile High School."
Jordan 48:23
The audio drama of "Pedophile High School" that he did is one of my favorite podcasts-
Jeremy 48:29
It's very good.
Jordan 48:29
Ever made! Oh my God!
David 48:30
Oh Jordan, remember the one issue comic we made called "Johnny the Forgetful Pedophile"? We had one joke. And I think that was all the material, where it was a guy who goes up to, like, a little girl and says, "Hey, you want to get in my van?". She goes, "Sure!" And he just drops her off. And then it just shows him at his house going, "Wait. Goddammit!"
Jordan 48:47
We were 14!
David 48:48
We were 14. That's probably about the level of my writing quality still. Is that- That is a 14-year-old. So I'm about even with Golem Hearts' writer.
Jordan 48:55
I'm pretty sure if you go back to that Tokyo Shinobi Squad episode, when I mentioned- I think I mentioned Pedophile High School, and I think David told that exact story.
Jeremy 49:03
[Laughter]
David 49:05
I just want to impress Jeremy, okay? He's friends with Alex Ptak!
Jordan 49:08
I know. Senpai is here! We must allow Senpai to notice us. I get it.
Jeremy 49:13
Yeah, I'll let him know.
David 49:14
Alright.
Jeremy 49:14
I'll forward that info to him.
Jordan 49:16
Cool, cool.
David 49:17
But Jeremy, is there anything else you want to discuss?
Jeremy 49:19
Uh, yeah. I think that's it. Look me, uh- Google me or whatever. You'll figure it out.
David 49:22
Alright. Sounds good to me. Alright. So, speaking of people that I respect, I want to give props to Jordan for making the opening/ending theme, being a great co-host and helping with editing. Props to Merliel for the awesome cover art. You can find her online @mer_liel; And Nigel for being our generous art benefactor. Thank you Dylan for assistance with editing. You can find his podcast "Anime Out of Context" at animeoutofcontext.com Thanks to Tucker for assistance with pronunciation, translation, and other miscellaneous research. Thank you to T-root, OzyRat, and T. Wolfwood for being our awesome transcription volunteers. You can find them on the site as they become available. Jordan, is there anything you want to add to that?
Jordan 49:52
Uh, yeah, David. I would like to thank you for editing and anything else that I want to talk about.
David 49:58
You're welcome.
Jordan 49:59
That's good. Thank you so much for editing David and doing everything that you do. You mean a lot to me.
David 50:04
Aww. Thanks babe. And you can find us on Twitter @shonenflopcast and our website shonenflop.com. We're also on Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, or wherever else you get your podcasts. And if you're not in it, join the Shonen Flop Discord. It's open to everyone, patron or not. Come hang out with us and talk about anime, games, or whatever else is on your mind. We also have a monthly movie night. We just saw "The Birdcage" which was awesome.
Jordan 50:21
I loved that. Yeah.
David 50:22
And you find a link to it in the show notes or on our site. And if you've been enjoying the show, wanna su- Help us keep going, I mean. It's t- Year-two! Let's make it to year-three.
Jordan 50:22
Yeah!
David 50:22
Consider becoming a patron. Listen. You could be joining us in this call right now.
Jordan 50:33
Give us some money!
David 50:34
Get some awesome exclusive things like HD-art, early access to episodes, and exclusive content like: listening to our thoughts on Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer and PPPPPPP, which is at 33 chapters Jordan.
Jordan 50:44
Yes!
David 50:44
I really can't believe it. Every fucking time.
Jordan 50:46
I'm so happy!
David 50:47
On that note: I just want to read off some of our awesome patrons. First of all, I want to thank our totally awesome "Chainsaw Man" patrons: We got Pterodactyl Ghost and "When You Talk, Chaos Fucking Happens. I Forget Who I Am". Moving on down to the "Dolphin Dads", speaking of quality dads: We've got T. Wolfwood, a.k.a. "Tracking roving animals for all loving girls and racoons" Wolfwood. Moving down to "The King of the Forest" we have: Albie, Cram, Gabe Landau, Jacob Andrew Galloway, Josh Robinson, Mark, Marty, Rachel, my lovely girlfriend. I hope your tummy is feeling better after you ate all that banana pudding. ScarletMyrmidon, Soloman Martinez [Transcribers note: Check please? Not sure who this is refering to], and TheBbKingBbThe. All that's left now is let's go to "Sign-offs". Thank you so much for joining us. Tune in next Monday as we give our thoughts on a series that has only three letters in its name. What could they be? You'll have to try and take a guess. This has been David.
Jordan 51:30
This has been Jordan.
Jeremy 51:31
And this has been Jeremy. Congrats on two years!
Jordan 51:34
Oh thank you so much!
David 51:35
Aww. Thank you so much. Awww!
Jordan 51:37
Aww! David what have they been listening to?
David 51:39
They've been listening to Shonen Flop!
Jordan 51:40
Keep on floppin' floppers!
David 51:42
Yeah!
Jordan 51:50
Yeah!!
Transcribed by https://otter.ai